New DND scope!

Steve David

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I guess that PGW Steve would be the person to answer this, but has DND decided to change the scope on the new Timberwolf from US Optics to Schmidt & Bender? If so, what was the reason for this? Are they really following the USMC with the optic thing?
 
Steve David said:
I guess that PGW Steve would be the person to answer this, but has DND decided to change the scope on the new Timberwolf from US Optics to Schmidt & Bender? If so, what was the reason for this? Are they really following the USMC with the optic thing?

DND uses Unertl 10X scope not a US Optics, And according to http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-mrsws.htm Timberwolf is using a Leupold. But On PGW site using -US Optics SN-3 EREK 3.2-17.

Im Confused.
 
I was on the US Optics a while ago and on their site if I re-call they were congradulating PGW on there DND contract and that for them using an US Optics scope. Or it was something like that but I do remember seeing PGW on the US Optics website. But I don't see it on their site anymore. So???????????????
 
I have herad what Robak is saying. I know the original specs on the new Timberwolf was infact a US Optics, as in the picture on the PGW homepage, but I then heard the spec on the scope changed and S&B was the new scope for the new PGW rifle. Kind of funny, the USMC used the Unertl, we went with the Unertl, the USMC is now changing to S&B , so we are changing to S&B.
 
Without starting a flame war... I have very personal gut feelings why PGW has been FORCED to change from the US Optics to S&B and they are not very positive.

This whole Sniper contract has soured me completely from participating in future DND contracts.

Don't get me wrong; The Timberwolf is a great rifle and it will serve our forces well.

However the whole submission / lack of trials / lack of returning goods without payment / lack of communication throughout totally sucked and continues to suck!

JR
 
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TSE JR said:
Without starting a flame war... I have very personal gut feelings why PGW has been FORCED to change from the US Optics to S&B and they are not very positive.

This whole Sniper contract has soured me completely from participating in future DND contracts.

Don't get me wrong; The Timberwolf is a great rifle and it will serve our forces well.

However the whole submission / lack of trials / lack of returning goods without payment / lack of communication throughout totally sucked and continues to suck!

JR
What did TSE have to do with sniper rifle trials? Or is it none of my buissness?
 
TSE did for the aborted and clowinsh 1st Trial.

USO built a scope from CF input. From all reports it was the hands down favourite.

However there are some VERY shady dealings WRT to contract issue etc in some contracts - and I understand that the LCMM favoured S&B (thought the LCMM is a wepons tech and not a Sniper) and S&B was forced on the system after the award.

I think Steve is too professional to comment on the goings on...
 
KevinB said:
TSE did for the aborted and clowinsh 1st Trial.

USO built a scope from CF input. From all reports it was the hands down favourite.

However there are some VERY shady dealings WRT to contract issue etc in some contracts - and I understand that the LCMM favoured S&B (thought the LCMM is a wepons tech and not a Sniper) and S&B was forced on the system after the award.

I think Steve is too professional to comment on the goings on...

No we had nothing to do with the rifles in any of the trials. We supplied scopes for the first trial and ammo for the second.
 
My bad -- Thought you guys entered the Blaser?


Secondly I was given some clarity on the USO issue - my comments above are not 100% wrt to the overwhelming choice --

The then sniper cell in Gagetwon worked with USO to build the scope and had input from operational cells. The LCMM prefered S&B.

Apparently the current cell in Gagetown prefers S&B.
 
KevinB said:
My bad -- Thought you guys entered the Blaser?


Secondly I was given some clarity on the USO issue - my comments above are not 100% wrt to the overwhelming choice --

The then sniper cell in Gagetwon worked with USO to build the scope and had input from operational cells. The LCMM prefered S&B.

Apparently the current cell in Gagetown prefers S&B.

Are they using the one with the knob to get 56min of elv in 2 clicks?
 
KevinB said:
Apparently the current cell in Gagetown prefers S&B.

That would then beg the question of why the trials took place in the first place. Could they just not have ordered what they wanted without the charade?
 
redleg said:
That would then beg the question of why the trials took place in the first place. Could they just not have ordered what they wanted without the charade?

Yes James, they could have. As a former serving soldier, you know that as well as I do. The entire MRSW question could have been sorted out in a rather short/sharp user trial involving the folks who will ultimately employ the system. But that is not the long and overly convoluted road that we chose (or were Treasury Board-mandated) to go down, is it?? Without getting into the whole mess, we both know that there are MANY, many more official and personal concerns associated with selection of the PGW rifle and (later) the optics.

It is what it is, and at the end of the day there are many bruised feelings/missed opportunities/etc. But will our snipers have what they need for the job? I think so. And if operational effectiveness is the bottom line, then I as a serving member of the operational chain am content.

We'll just have to wait and see what the future holds in terms of timely and/or reliable system maintenance for what amounts to a custom rifle. My unit has recently given up its sole .50 Macbros rifle as "BLR" because the barrel is shot out. Yes, it is the barrel that "made the shot". But at the end of the day, it is just another "custom" weapon that has to go back to the manufacturer for refit, without a ready replacement available to the users.

Yeah, an operational stock of spare weapons would alleviate the problem, but we all know that such stock does not exist for specialist weapons. And operations take precedence for kit. So units in Canada are left holding the bag with non-functional (but deemed mission-essential) equipment never to be replaced. Go figure....

The things that make you go "Hmmmm"
 
Missed opportunities and subsequent beneficiaries.

Bartok5 said:
It is what it is, and at the end of the day there are many bruised feelings/missed opportunities/etc.

You know what's really great about this. We informed civilians get a opportunity to buy equipment that CF didn't at a significantly reduced price (-30%) because of work in process that was not delivered to the border.

So I am smiling on my way to the range. Thanks so much CANADA! :D




CanHor900.jpg


M40A3 Clone: M700 Short Action with M40 Modifications including clip slot, Jewell Trigger with 1 pound kit, Badger Bottom Metal and Rings, McMillan A4 stock with USMC Options(Steel bedded and free floated), Lilja 3groove #7 pattern 24" 1/10 twist Stainless Barrel, USO Canadian Metric SN-3 TPAL 3.2-17x44 Scope with Horus H-25 Lit reticle. US Optics 20 moa Base with clip slot devices. Ammo custom loaded with Berger 175 VLD Target bullets(BC=.537), 45.0 Varget, F210M Primers for 2670 FPS (SD 7.3).

SMKvBerger.jpg


Actual plot from Excel of Exbal values for 2600 fps trajectory of 175SMK vs 185 Berger VLD.
 
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