New forum idea

People not listening is not restricted to this forum. About once a week there is a question like best pistol for a Newbie. For the most part people patiently advise to get a decent 22. Explain in detail their rational. Typically this is recieved and the asker buys a Glock in 9MM because that just looks cool. Not much difference to what you guys are complaining about. No need for a subforum for people who ask what was asked last week and ignore everything anyway.

As for a factory rifle should not be considered a precision rifle. Well you are right. A factory barrel that cost 50$ is not as precise as one as one that cost 400. However factory rifle may be all that is accessible to most. Myself included.
 
Last edited:
If the only way to qualify as a precision shooter or someone interested in precision shooting was to:

Instantly know what to buy ( Krieger vs Hart etc );
Instantly know where to go for gunsmithing;
Be able to afford the materials required; and
Instantly have the ability to shoot sub .3

Then there would be a couple of dozen guys in North America doing that shooting with one gunsmith and no factories offering any gear. The way most people get interested in a sub-genre of a sport is by edging towards it, trying other stuff etc and therefore it makes total sense to me that someone buy a heavy barrel varmint style rifle and see if they like the concept of precision shooting before they splash out wads of cash on a custom this or handmade that.
 
curtmg said:
I believe the biggest part of the problem was mentioned in the locked thread, it's just too goddam cold, and we all need to get out shooting.
Click to expand...

Too cold? I've been out shooting almost every weekend this year. Yes even the days that were -20C with 10 gusting 15MPH winds and snow. I am trying to improve my abilities, which means shooting in ALL weather conditions.

Back to the thread :

I think alot of people lack good "forum etiquette". Standard protocol on any forum is to search for the answer first, if you can't find it, then ask. I haven't been a CGN member long, but I too am getting sick of seeing the endless $1000 sniper rifle question.
 
Diddly sounds good to me at this point. My reason for suggesting this list was only to give a resource for those that want to use it listing the common games and what they need to do it. If it was a sticky it would be easy to find (search sucks) and one could browse through and pick what they want to do (competitive or not) and then a suggestion of hardware to do it with. For example if someone wanted a super accurate hunting gun they they could look at the Silhouette game for suggestions. It would not be hard for most to find the type of gun they wanted for their own use. I don't have time to do it myself but if each game was done by a different person then it wouldn't be too rough on anyone to produce. I always welcome new shooters to my business or my club. I am happy to provide ideas or suggestions and when someone is totally off the mark I will say so even if it costs me a sale at work. I welcome new ideas but have seen enough of them that don't work that I have a very realistic point of view.
 
Just an observation...If, one was to keep a tight leash on interpreting the meaning of "precision," there would only be 3 rifles for sale in the entire Exchange Forum for Precision Rifles!
 
DrawBlood said:
Not as precise is a joke...a Savage isnt as accurate as a custom Rem 700...that doesnt mean the guy behind the 700 isnt just some rich boy that cant shoot...the guy bhind the gun is much more important imo.
Click to expand...

If you would quote the whole sentence,, he is not saying that,,, you Chihuahua,,, now you are going to give advice, after being here 2 months and was going to use a HR for build LOL
I have a question,, I want to build a Sniper/Long Range rifle, with your vast wealth of knowledge can you give some advice???
 
JEC, so be it, maybe they should be posted elsewhere and who defined "precision".

Who says a 700 is better than a Savage? Proof is on the target no matter what the hardware! Prove it by coming out to shoot! Maybe a factory gun can shoot better than something we build, come out and prove it, open my eyes!
 
JEC said:
Just an observation...If, one was to keep a tight leash on interpreting the meaning of "precision," there would only be 3 rifles for sale in the entire Exchange Forum for Precision Rifles!
Click to expand...

Exaclty the reason I quit looking in that EE its filled with 90% of rifles that don't belong there,, same thing with this one. LOL
 
Seeing as I contibuted to the sh%t storm on other thread, I'll offer up some info, and some more opinion. Some of the first questions that need to be asked when someone is talking about building/buying an accurate rifle are: How much do you want to spend, and what are the intended uses of the rifle. If it is a paper puncher, there are going to significant differences than if the rifle is to be used for hunting as well. There are no totally correct answers, as there are lots of ways to get a decent end result. There are many here that are more than qualified to offer great info on one type of rifle, and not on the other type. I did address some of that on that thread, and those comments will stay there. The current taticool/sniper fad is actually hurting our sports, both hunting and shooting. Lots of guys are watching movies, and deciding that "I can do that", getting their wallets out and buying gear they have little or no idea how to use. This is where our sport gets hurt, as these guys are most often at public ranges with thier "sniper" rifles, and armchair expert attiudes. Worse yet, they are taking to field and taking shots at game they should not be taking. I think herin lies the cause to some of the bad attitude these questions get when asked. I do not own sniper rifles, as I am not a sniper. I own target rifles that are used by snipers, but I don't refer to them as sniper rifles, and I try to correct people that do. Again, this is just my opinion, and it's worth exactly what you paid for it.

R.
 
Ian.....X2. The proof is always in the pudding (or on the paper). Because there is such wide range of experience / expectations, "precision" is very much a relative concept. For some, their "tack driver" typically shoots 2MOA but a couple of times, they got cloverleafs .... for others, a cloverleaf is an "off" day. I have always been treated well when I ask (which to some must be) dumb questions on the Precision Forum. It makes sense to me to seek the opinions of those who are likely to know more than myself...and the Precision Forum is a good place to find people of that caliber.
I think it is good practice for all of us (regardless of our expertise) to treat posters like we would if we were face-to-face. When someone asks me a question at the Range, I would never consider telling them I was tired of answering that question, and tell them they should go do a search. Since I started shooting at paper seven years ago, I have improved...thanks to all the people who patiently answered my questions.
 
I am not in favor on having sub forums. Look at sites like Benchrestcentral. Lots of sub category, lots of isolation, not alot of cross training. Pretty dull site except for the Sh!T storms that break out "whether a barrel can really and truly be stopped."

There are tons of the same posts being started by newbies mostly because they can't find the info which is buried on page something or other and will not come up on a search.

Yes, I have tried to find my own posts and not been successful.

Since more of the fights do occur with these posts , why not make a sticky with the list of questions a newbie must answer to get some help.

What are you using it for?
What is your budget?
competition or hunting or whatever?
Etc, etc etc

In general, there is a vague question which leads of varied responses. Rebuttals start on these responses sometimes with no reference to the orig question. More often then not, we have to guess what the OP was really all about. Waste of time.

A list of must answer questions to define the post will help get to what the OP really wants. At which point, referal to standard stickys could make sense.

I want to build a precison rifle to shoot at the Worlds in SR BR is a wee bit different then I want a precision rifle for my upcoming sheep hunt.

As for precision rifle, I like what Ian has said. Holes in paper is what this is all about. $500 or $5000, if it will shoot to the level the owner wants for its intended purpose, good enough for me.

If not, providing info to help meet the OP goals is why I post. Those may not be ideal goals for me or my interest but so what. It helps a shooter move towards something they want to accomplish.

Every shooting discipline can have its level of desired precision and they may be in conflict with another discipline. So what? It's all about sharing ideas and technology to help ALL shooters improve and reach their shooting goals.

I don't shoot SR BR but I can tell you most of my reloading techniques come from this discipline.

I have researched heavily into the past with info from Ackley, Donaldson, Gibbs, Bates and others. They were true wildcatters that came up a whole bunch of neat chambering some of which have become commercial successes. And they certainly teach you alot about case design and performance. Not much the wildcatters of the 30's to 80's didn't cover.

I also pay close attention to tactical rifles as cold bore shot is everything. With 2 sighters to get on target, these techniques really help my F class competition.

Varmint hunters shoot in large volume and want a high degree of accuracy. Their ability to keep their rifles hitting targets when dirty and hot is rich with info on how to survive a 22rds relay in the middle of summer.

I enjoy hearing and studying the techniques of all shooting disciplines. There is always something new to learn.

That is what makes this forum such a joy - the mixture of ideas, backgrounds and experiences. If the posts can stay away from personal attacks, mine is better then your attitudes, and the bickering, we will continue to have one of the best forums on the net.

Jerry
 
The words "cheap and Precision" should not be used in the same sentence. One why or another, Precision comes at a price. Even if you buy an old rusty action,restore it and true it, build your own stock, buy a match grade barrel, buy a chamber reamer (chamber yourself or have it done...same price), bed the action and then!.... spend hundreds of $ on powder & bullets to find the ultimate load.(This is never accomplished) If you want to buy this already done for you in a box... that won't be cheap either.d:h:
 
sako6br said:
The words "cheap and Precision" should not be used in the same sentence. One why or another, Precision comes at a price. Even if you buy an old rusty action,restore it and true it, build your own stock, buy a match grade barrel, buy a chamber reamer (chamber yourself or have it done...same price), bed the action and then!.... spend hundreds of $ on powder & bullets to find the ultimate load.(This is never accomplished) If you want to buy this already done for you in a box... that won't be cheap either.d:h:
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. Polishing turds is almost an epidemic, and the outcome is never good. Trying to get diamonds from dog sh%t, just leaves you with more sh&t, and an empty wallet.

R.
 
I've been shooting a few different .223s over the last few years and my interest is very small groups at 100yds on paper and killing things up to 300 yards. The smaller the group the better. I've been interested in the 17 Mach IV/17 Remington Fireball for a few years (and Cooper rifles) and finally was able to buy one. This is a pic of the test target (@50yards)

Testtarget.jpg


This is not considered to be a 'precision rifle'. There are a lot of Remington and Savage rifles that could also shoot similar to this or better and and wouldn't be considered to be 'precision' rifles either. I'd like to see a sub group for those of us that can't afford the big dollar rifles or scopes, yet strive to shoot as accurately as possible with what we have. I'm not a rich man, but I still revel in making tiny groups within the caliber I can afford to shoot frequently.
 
Personally, I'm getting rather sick of the whole "you can't have precision with out big money" attitude. Lot's of folks just want to shoot accurately, and with some careful shopping and a little basic 'smithing work on their part that is very do-able. Look at some of the rifles Jerry has built, not big coin, yet very accurate. The problem seems to be that a lot of people have confused "precision" (to be precise, accurate) with "tacticool sniper wannabe rifle". If you want to shoot small groups you don't actually need McMillan, Nightforce, BR actions etc. If you want to wring that last tiny possible bit of accuracy (and your talent and skill level is up to it) then those things will help you, but for the average shooter or someone starting in the game, no. FWIW - dan
 
This is not a "precision shooting" website. CGN is website that is a collective meeting place where the common theme is that we're generally all Canadian. The PR forum is a sub-topic within that website.

You can't "post" your way to become a better precision shooter, and "Posting" does not make you an authority on any subject. I was shocked to see a regular contributor here, who had over a thousand posts, post a picture of his recently-acquired first-ever rifle!!

One recent addition (2 months, 300 posts) had begun with posts that revealed his obvious new-to-shooting-period status, and now he is dishing out commentary and advice on topics of which he clearly has no knowledge.

I think I have gone out of my way to help promote precision shooting. I have lost count of the number of new competitive shooters I have welcomed to the fold and let use one of my rifles and ammo. almost all have gone on to become competitive shooters themselves, and all have drawn their own conclusions as to what equipment they need to get started properly. None have gone out and bought $2500 custom actions because they know it isn't necessary, but the gunsmiths, gunstock makers and other experts in the field have also pointed out the risks in buying equipment that is too cheap or non-standard. (one of those comments being "I [they] won't touch -or work - on it)

I think those that know me and have actually met me know who and what I really am, and whether or not I can shoot. I will let them decide if I am credible or not.

Instead of looking at the way new shooters have been treated, it is perhaps time to look the other way around and see how expert shooters have been treated here. There are a few expert shooters that that remain here, but many rarely contribute if ever.

There have been expert Benchrest shooters, TR shooters and F-Class shooters that have left, or simply refuse to participate. They know they would be castigated for stating their frank and authoritative opinions on the promotion of poor quality equipment, or bad caliber/cartridge choices for a given application.

Some of this country's finest precision gun builders do not participate at all. Dennis Sorenson and Bill Leeper still do, but I see Bill less and less. The ones that lurk and don't post have some very critical opinions on some of the "isms" that have caught on, and are promoted.

You get what you pay for when it comes to the exchange of free advice. Just bear that in mind before you turn that into practice - and blow your face off, or before you drop your pay cheque on something on the basis of 50 forum posts saying it is the best.
 
Obtunded said:
I was shocked to see a regular contributor here, who had over a thousand posts, post a picture of his recently-acquired first-ever rifle!!
Click to expand...

Uncalled for: I bought that rifle two years ago, must've been a pic with an upgrade or something, 'cause it's still my one and only. If I have a lot of posts, it's because I ask a lot of questions; I consider myself far from being a guru or whatever, and I openly admit to having just started reloading...

... unless you weren't referring to me. Somehow, I felt targeted there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom