New Henry lever arms axe .410

mrgoat said:
No disrespect to yourself either, just letting you know I wasn't making comments without some experience behind it. I haven't set foot on a sporting clays course in many years. A few of us traveled weekly into the USA to shoot clays before there were any courses in Ontario. Orillia was my home club in those days and was one of the first to put a course in after Uxbridge. The game has obviously evolved and continues to from what I hear. In those days sub gauges were totally unheard of and seen on a sporting clays course especially a .410.
I gather part of the evolution of the game is allowing 3" ammo, do they allow 3" in 20 and 12ga as well. ? What would a long shot on a sporting field be now a days. ?? Are there specific small gauge events or are you shooting against fellas with 28-20- and 12ga, ..? Just curious

My reason for suggesting the pattern board and different ranges is to show that the "Effective", pattern of a .410 is approx. 30 yds max. and as gauge increases so does 'Effective" range, with a 12 ga 2 3/4 x 1 1/4 sitting at about 45 yds. The 410 3" actually has a higher breech pressure than a comparable 12 ga. and as such with standard soft lead shot will deform its pellets more as they start their journey down the barrel. Deformed pellets scatter quicker into the outer fringes of the pattern. So you can actually get a comparable to larger size pattern as a 12 ga. at closer ranges. But at longer ranges that long shot string of a 410 really gets dragged out and full of holes big enough for a clay to easily escape. The "Effective" pattern of a 410 lies in the centre of its pattern at closer ranges, as its fringe pattern can be spotty. With the use of 3" 410 the closer range pattern fringes will be, should be denser due to increased shot numbers but at longer ranges with deformation and that long shot string the "Effective" pattern performance drops sharply compared to larger gauges.
Choke obviously has a huge bearing on the pattern thrown, but so does shot hardness, forcing cone length (shot deformation). The 410 will perform better pattern wise with harder shot. You should, as you suggest, get better results with the higher percentage of pellets in the 3" load. However there are a lot of variables that go along with that.
Well I should stop here and wish you all the best in grinding clay targets with a .410. There is an old saying than any hit is a good hit with a 410.
Click to expand...



You obviously have a great deal of knowledge in regards to shot performance and patterning, etc and I take no exception in anything you say, quite the other way around in fact!
One thing I will add is that increasing muzzle velocity will also increase the amount of deformed shot and tend to spread the patterns more, fortunately heavy 410 loads (11/16 oz) are usually only pushing around 1100 to 1150 fps instead of the 1300 - 1400 fps in some 12 and 20 g loads, it all helps a little.

As far as sporting clay's courses go these days, where we used to see 30 and 40 yard targets as representative of a long shot 20 year ago, we're now seeing 60 yard crosser's with regularity and sometimes further than that. In fact one of the clubs that I belong to puts on a fun shoot each fall with nothing but long targets. Some of the top shooters that normally would score 80 or 90 on a regulation course are maybe topping 50 percent on this course and some of those targets are so far out there that they are difficult to see! The smart shooters are using 1 1/8 oz of hard 7.5 shot and there's no need to bring any chokes with you more open than full! No course that I'm aware of allows anything larger than 1 1/8 oz of 7.5 shot.
Another club that I belong to puts on a fun shoot each July where the second day is a sub gauge shoot. Extra points are given for the small gauge's and sxs guns are given an extra point as well. I usually use a 410 sxs in this event and I'm well aware of how under gunned one feels when faced with a 50 yard target with a 410 in your hands. Other shooters look at you with a mixture of pity and admiration on their faces! Last year there was one bunny presentation that was going very quickly down a hill at an honest 80 yards with erratic jumps, 12 g gunners were lucky to break half of them! The course setter took pity on the sub gauge's the next day and closed the range to 65 yards, if memory serves I think that I broke 2 or 3 of 8 with my 410. I was using 1/2 oz loads at that shoot because I couldn't find 11/16 oz loads but I think you can see my point of slinging as much lead at these targets as possible and is not at all the same as the close and predictable skeet targets! Yes things have changed in sporting in the 25 years that I've been shooting it!
 
It has been my experience with the .410 that out to about 15 or 20 yards, there is not much difference in the 2 1/2 and 3 inch .410.However, after 20 yards there is a big difference,with the 3 inch ,bagging game reliably out to 30 yards,where as the 2 1/2 inch will not do it reliably out that far.Any thing, beyond 30 yards, is stretching it ,in my opinion for a .410,2 1/2 or 3 inch.
 
Any word on street price and if they can be brought in? Fingers crossed!!!

...if any issues maybe ship it with a full stock and the "axe" grip in the box?
 
Here's a thought - how about some brass shells for the 2 1/2? If you have no need for a crimp, you could load them up to the same (or slightly higher) level that you do 3" shells. The original brass could be costly, but can be made from 444 (2.25"), 303 (2.22") or 9.3 X 74 (around 3") brass. It should last a lifetime.
 
Papaclaude said:
Here's a thought - how about some brass shells for the 2 1/2? If you have no need for a crimp, you could load them up to the same (or slightly higher) level that you do 3" shells. The original brass could be costly, but can be made from 444 (2.25"), 303 (2.22") or 9.3 X 74 (around 3") brass. It should last a lifetime.
Click to expand...

40 bucks for 25 is not bad IMO
MAGTECH BRASS 410GA/36GA
Price: $ 40.00

Box of 25
 
Papaclaude said:
Here's a thought - how about some brass shells for the 2 1/2? If you have no need for a crimp, you could load them up to the same (or slightly higher) level that you do 3" shells. The original brass could be costly, but can be made from 444 (2.25"), 303 (2.22") or 9.3 X 74 (around 3") brass. It should last a lifetime.
Click to expand...

I am loading 9.3x74 brass shells and I have no idea what pressure they run at.
There are no good recipes that I could find.
I am sending 1/2oz of shot flying at 1200fps but for this, the powder charge is significantly higher than published plastic shell charges; if the barrel bursts it's all on me.
In my 410 a 2.5" plastic shell clocks at 1250fps or higher.
 
Papaclaude said:
Here's a thought - how about some brass shells for the 2 1/2? If you have no need for a crimp, you could load them up to the same (or slightly higher) level that you do 3" shells. The original brass could be costly, but can be made from 444 (2.25"), 303 (2.22") or 9.3 X 74 (around 3") brass. It should last a lifetime.
Click to expand...

I've made .410 hulls from.303 brass and believe me it's really not worth the effort unless your absolutely bored stiff. To start with, the 303 rims were too thick to allow my gun to close so I had to make a jig so that I could file down the case heads until the gun would close. That wasn't a big deal, just drilled a large nut to the correct diameter and clamped it in the vise. Then I had to ream the primer pockets so the primers would seat flush. Then anneal the cases so they will fire form in the chamber. I had a lot of trouble doing this because you have to anneal fairly close to the rim but not too close. Then came the fire forming and I watched a couple of you tube videos of guys doing this and tried to duplicate what they were doing but it took two or 3 firings to get satisfactory looking hulls except that a lot of the case mouths were not square. Wads are a problem for fire forming as you can't get a conventional wad into the case you you have to get punches and cut some from leather or cork or what have you. Finally I had usable brass hulls but they're only 2.25 inches long so you can't get a heavy load in them. If I was doing it again I'd definitely find some 9.3x74R brass to use since it's 2.94 inches long and has more usable case capacity. And of course.... you are undoubtedly a test pilot doing this stuff!
 
North60 said:
The real question is will it be importable to Canada as the other shorty shotguns are not.
Click to expand...

For real...*fingers crossed*

Anyone have any info if it is? Maybe import and sell it with a FULL stock and have the pistol grip/axe head grip in the box or sold separately if needed?

I hope the actual price isn't close to $1,000 Canadian tho!!!
 
hannibal.black98 said:
For real...*fingers crossed*

Anyone have any info if it is? Maybe import and sell it with a FULL stock and have the pistol grip/axe head grip in the box or sold separately if needed?

I hope the actual price isn't close to $1,000 Canadian tho!!!
Click to expand...
Probably close to 1100-1200 as we Canadians like paying premium for our guns ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom