new holster

[Newfoundlandrover]

I've seen and read the reviews on the Serpa, and personally think its a pretty slick design....that being said,if a firearm is able to be discharged...something is wrong...either the retention clip is wayyy out of adjustment or the wrong firearm is being holstered in the Serpa. This is a fitted holster that has to only be used with the firearm for which it was designed....if a person tries to holster a Glock 17 in a Serpa holster that was designed for a CZ 75 because it looks like it may work....you're opening yourself up to problems.

 

[FoxAlpha]

The fact is, it's not just the holsters design. Yes, you actuate the release with your trigger finger, but you do the same thing for a battery assist lever on an ar-15, and no one complains about that. If any one who has ever actually used a serpa, it doesn't put your finger on the trigger, it's places it exactly where it should be in a safe location above the trigger guard, where your finger ends up after unholstering your pistol on every holster! Next you'll argue that with the serpa, it's because your putting pressure with your trigger finger down to release the pistol, is what has led to ND's and idiots shooting themselves in the leg. This has nothing to do with the holsters design, like I said, it's due to lack of training. A properly trained shooter/operator is going to know that that finger doesn't enter the trigger guard until the muzzle is clear of your body. This is just another example of people blaming human stupidity on a product that works. I really don't care if school x and training legend z ban the use of the serpa holster in their programs, it's not the Ferrari doing 260 down the highway that killed the driver, it's the idiot who didn't learn how to drive. Simple as that.

 

[TDC]

I've seen and read the reviews on the Serpa, and personally think its a pretty slick design....that being said,if a firearm is able to be discharged...something is wrong...either the retention clip is wayyy out of adjustment or the wrong firearm is being holstered in the Serpa. This is a fitted holster that has to only be used with the firearm for which it was designed....if a person tries to holster a Glock 17 in a Serpa holster that was designed for a CZ 75 because it looks like it may work....you're opening yourself up to problems.

For starters, SERPA and most Blackcrap products are made off shore, which means they don't get my money and are usually of lesser quality than locally made gear. Second, it doesn'y matter who's fitted holster you use, run the right holster for the right gun. They are not interchangeable.

The fact is, it's not just the holsters design. Yes, you actuate the release with your trigger finger, but you do the same thing for a battery assist lever on an ar-15, and no one complains about that. If any one who has ever actually used a serpa, it doesn't put your finger on the trigger, it's places it exactly where it should be in a safe location above the trigger guard, where your finger ends up after unholstering your pistol on every holster! Next you'll argue that with the serpa, it's because your putting pressure with your trigger finger down to release the pistol, is what has led to ND's and idiots shooting themselves in the leg. This has nothing to do with the holsters design, like I said, it's due to lack of training. A properly trained shooter/operator is going to know that that finger doesn't enter the trigger guard until the muzzle is clear of your body. This is just another example of people blaming human stupidity on a product that works. I really don't care if school x and training legend z ban the use of the serpa holster in their programs, it's not the Ferrari doing 260 down the highway that killed the driver, it's the idiot who didn't learn how to drive. Simple as that.

Again, please explain why the SERPA is the only design that requires the trigger finger to operate it? Again, please explain why those who teach/train for a living have banned such a device? Again, explain why there have been several documented cases of ND's and locked holsters with this specific make/model? You can act like the SERPA is awesome for slow speed draws on paper at the range all day. You cannot forget that nearly all firearms related accessories are designed for duty/MIL use. Meaning they're designed for high speed shooting of other humans. Where time is critical for survival and stress is very high. Neither of which work well with the SERPA. As I've posted probably a dozen times on this forum. I still see no reason for the range rat to have a level 2 or 3 holster. Could someone, anyone please attempt to validate why this is necessary???

SERPA's sell because people think they "look cool" and they're cheap.

TDC

 

[Newfoundlandrover]

For starters, SERPA and most Blackcrap products are made off shore, which means they don't get my money and are usually of lesser quality than locally made gear. Second, it doesn'y matter who's fitted holster you use, run the right holster for the right gun. They are not interchangeable.



Again, please explain why the SERPA is the only design that requires the trigger finger to operate it? Again, please explain why those who teach/train for a living have banned such a device? Again, explain why there have been several documented cases of ND's and locked holsters with this specific make/model? You can act like the SERPA is awesome for slow speed draws on paper at the range all day. You cannot forget that nearly all firearms related accessories are designed for duty/MIL use. Meaning they're designed for high speed shooting of other humans. Where time is critical for survival and stress is very high. Neither of which work well with the SERPA. As I've posted probably a dozen times on this forum. I still see no reason for the range rat to have a level 2 or 3 holster. Could someone, anyone please attempt to validate why this is necessary???

SERPA's sell because people think they "look cool" and they're cheap.

TDC

I said they were slick....never said I owned one. I use a $20 nylon holster with a nifty mag pouch. The Serpa is a mechanical holster and with anything mechanical, issues are sometimes unavoidable....personally, I avoid issues and never holster my pistol with a round in the pipe.....nuff said

 

[enefgee]

I said they were slick....never said I owned one. I use a $20 nylon holster with a nifty mag pouch. The Serpa is a mechanical holster and with anything mechanical, issues are sometimes unavoidable....personally, I avoid issues and never holster my pistol with a round in the pipe.....nuff said

Oh, Ok then, but........ never mind.

 

[FoxAlpha]

For starters, SERPA and most Blackcrap products are made off shore, which means they don't get my money and are usually of lesser quality than locally made gear. Second, it doesn'y matter who's fitted holster you use, run the right holster for the right gun. They are not interchangeable.



Again, please explain why the SERPA is the only design that requires the trigger finger to operate it? Again, please explain why those who teach/train for a living have banned such a device? Again, explain why there have been several documented cases of ND's and locked holsters with this specific make/model? You can act like the SERPA is awesome for slow speed draws on paper at the range all day. You cannot forget that nearly all firearms related accessories are designed for duty/MIL use. Meaning they're designed for high speed shooting of other humans. Where time is critical for survival and stress is very high. Neither of which work well with the SERPA. As I've posted probably a dozen times on this forum. I still see no reason for the range rat to have a level 2 or 3 holster. Could someone, anyone please attempt to validate why this is necessary???

SERPA's sell because people think they "look cool" and they're cheap.

TDC

Why are you so adamant against a serpa holster? I'm not telling you to Stop using your ______ holster, you just seem to think that kit over training is much more important. Not everyone on here is a "range rat" and maybe some people prefer a retention holster over a level 1. I use a few different holsters depending on what the situation calls for, generally a level 1 or 2. With good training, I can draw from a serpa as quickly and safely as I can my raven. You do make good points, I just don't see your valid point on it not being safe.

 

[TDC]

Why are you so adamant against a serpa holster? I'm not telling you to Stop using your ______ holster, you just seem to think that kit over training is much more important. Not everyone on here is a "range rat" and maybe some people prefer a retention holster over a level 1. I use a few different holsters depending on what the situation calls for, generally a level 1 or 2. With good training, I can draw from a serpa as quickly and safely as I can my raven. You do make good points, I just don't see your valid point on it not being safe.

The safety issue, is real. Again.... There are quite a few documented cases of ND's and you're right, its generally a training issue. However, the design is dumb, in that it requires your trigger finger to operate which NO OTHER holster does. Its a stupid idea. In addition the lock mechanism is susceptible to failure due to debris.

As for level 2/3 holsters for non MIL/LE folks. Please tell me why you think its necessary? If your level one or friction fit holster is not retaining your gun then it sucks. Quality level one holsters, namely kydex ones provide more than enough tension to secure the firearm.

TDC

 

[FoxAlpha]

You'd be guessing right. I prefer a small group of intelligent like minded friends over a greater number of room temperature IQ types. My friends bring something to the table besides their company. Thanks for guessing.



The safety issue, is real. Again.... There are quite a few documented cases of ND's and you're right, its generally a training issue. However, the design is dumb, in that it requires your trigger finger to operate which NO OTHER holster does. Its a stupid idea. In addition the lock mechanism is susceptible to failure due to debris.

As for level 2/3 holsters for non MIL/LE folks. Please tell me why you think its necessary? If your level one or friction fit holster is not retaining your gun then it sucks. Quality level one holsters, namely kydex ones provide more than enough tension to secure the firearm.

TDC

Thank you for agreeing with the training. As for your opinion on the design, well it's an opinion, and that's that. I've had my serpa covered in crap from rough use and I've never had a problem with the mech. but it's a reasonable statement. But honestly, when its comes to range folks, why do you care so much what people decide to use? Are you equally frustrated by everyday folks who say, wear a plate carrier for ammo/mags? Or those who prefer a drop leg unit over a hip one? I mean, all the facts and specs of certain pieces of kit aside, who cares what someone else uses? Use what you want.

To the OP, my apologies for hijacking your thread. I've said what I've wanted. Buy and use whatever gear you want to use, not what old timers and people stuck in their own ways tell you to use.

 

[enefgee]

Old timers and people stuck in their own ways, like pretty much any professional instructor you might want to take a course from?

 

[TDC]

Thank you for agreeing with the training. As for your opinion on the design, well it's an opinion, and that's that. I've had my serpa covered in crap from rough use and I've never had a problem with the mech. but it's a reasonable statement. But honestly, when its comes to range folks, why do you care so much what people decide to use? Are you equally frustrated by everyday folks who say, wear a plate carrier for ammo/mags? Or those who prefer a drop leg unit over a hip one? I mean, all the facts and specs of certain pieces of kit aside, who cares what someone else uses? Use what you want.

To the OP, my apologies for hijacking your thread. I've said what I've wanted. Buy and use whatever gear you want to use, not what old timers and people stuck in their own ways tell you to use.

I really don't care what people use. I have issue with folks who suggest such gear and then can't support their reason why. SERPA's get bought because they're cheap and they look cool, its just that simple. Its clear that the majority who buy them have zero training and will likely never seek any either. The holster is slower than a level one with the potential for an ND which is a real possibility with inexperienced users which we already established are the majority of SERPA users. They're poorly made, poorly designed, and very well marketed. I call it the Walmart syndrome. Most people know that Walmart sells cheap sh*t products, but if its cheap people will buy it because they think they're getting a "deal".

TDC

 

[tazzharm]

wow..sorry guys for starting a big problem...
to answer yes my norinco has a aquare gurad and thats why it's not allowing the holster to secure it ...how ever it does fit in the holster but does not lock....and yes once I find a holster for this firearm ( taking to target sports and acually fitting it) I will be practicing with an unloaded weapon....
I will keep the serpa holser cause I'll pickup another 1911 later down the road..
some people like this holster some don't , it's like some like toyota and some like ford at the end they all do the same.
great replies though.
Glenn.