New ladder test results.I have conceeded, New barrel is needed.Last post update.

Well, here is my next step decision........

I am going to try duplicate the last ladder test , if it is repeatable I will chose a few loads and try some distance groups, if it doesn't create similar results the rifle gets torn down and either re barreled or sold all together.
 
what are you using for reloading dies? Not all dies are equal and believe it or not we just witnessed a guy go from shotgun groups to sub MOA groups by throwing out his Lee deluxe die set and using a new redding competition set, seams that there was something wonky with the lee bullet seater and after using the redding die everything came together.......

The cheapest thing to do right now is to finance a box of factory match ammo and shoot a couple groups, if everything comes togeather with factory ammo then there is definitely something astray on your reloading bench or your reloading ritual...
 
Using RCBS dies,standard. I also tried 10 shots of factory Hornady ammo, could try the other 10 and see what happens.


yodave said:
what are you using for reloading dies? Not all dies are equal and believe it or not we just witnessed a guy go from shotgun groups to sub MOA groups by throwing out his Lee deluxe die set and using a new redding competition set, seams that there was something wonky with the lee bullet seater and after using the redding die everything came together.......

The cheapest thing to do right now is to finance a box of factory match ammo and shoot a couple groups, if everything comes togeather with factory ammo then there is definitely something astray on your reloading bench or your reloading ritual...
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Kelly Timoffee said:
Using RCBS dies,standard. I also tried 10 shots of factory Hornady ammo, could try the other 10 and see what happens.
Click to expand...

How did the factory ammo group?
Are you keeping a eye on your brass length after sizing? brass over the trim to length will effect accuracy in a negative way.
Are you full length sizing or have you lifted the die up so that you don't bump the shoulder back every time you size? Try rolling a couple of loaded rounds on a mirror and watch the bullet tips, you may have some serious run out, I also noticed that a lot of your groups were shot with a pretty good jump, try setting the bullet with a 10 thou jump and then play with your powder charges, you can fine tune the bullet jump after you get a repeatable powder/powder charge that holds a decent repeatable group.

Double check your crown, if your powder residue on the crown after shooting is not a nice symmetrical pattern it may have been slightly flawed at the factory.
 
Factory ammo was poor.

The brass was all new, but I did run through the neck bushing to ensure consistent tension, .0015 interference is about where I am at.Nothing has been full length sized yet.

Did many groups at very little jump with same results.

I have run the rounds on my bench top which is glass, no visible run out to my eye.

There are pictures of the crown as best I can get if you want to browse back in the thread they are somewhere if you would like to see.


yodave said:
How did the factory ammo group?
Are you keeping a eye on your brass length after sizing? brass over the trim to length will effect accuracy in a negative way.
Are you full length sizing or have you lifted the die up so that you don't bump the shoulder back every time you size? Try rolling a couple of loaded rounds on a mirror and watch the bullet tips, you may have some serious run out, I also noticed that a lot of your groups were shot with a pretty good jump, try setting the bullet with a 10 thou jump and then play with your powder charges, you can fine tune the bullet jump after you get a repeatable powder/powder charge that holds a decent repeatable group.

Double check your crown, if your powder residue on the crown after shooting is not a nice symmetrical pattern it may have been slightly flawed at the factory.
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Ok, did a little dissection tonight of the culprit rifle.

First off , the action screws: Looks like I had them around 65 in/lbs , I did some reading with guys going from 30 to 65 and showing pictures of groups.The difference in these group sizes is quite small , but there is a difference.Without having a confirmed load I cannot speculate or quantify and relation to my poor groups and screw torque.Upon assembly I set them at 40 in/lbs, front screw first after tapping rifle on ground my the barrel to set the recoil lug.then the rear screw at the same.

The bedding is not effected or has shown any signs of movement, the tooling marks from the action are nicely showing in the bedding compound.No sign of any movement on the action or recoil leg of any type.

NOW!!!! - I did notice a spot on the chassis at the rear of the bolt handle opening where it looks like the rear of the bolt handle is hitting the aluminum of the chassis, no marks on bolt due to hardness but area is very obvious in the chassis.









What my mind says to do? Try to replicate the last ladder test attempt with the new torque settings.

How say the masses out there?
 
One last thing I would look at is the brake, any chance it is slightly off square and bullets just nicking on the way out, or having it affect the flight?

I remember you last thread, in all honesty I would re-barrel. You could easily burn up all the powder you can find and not hit a good grouping load. I found that my rifles in the larger calibers had bigger sweet spots with powder charges, and even with the rounds being loaded straight. The larger the case / bore diameter the lower the percentage things become. A one grain jump in powder is a much lower percentage in your lapua then it would be in a 223, or even half of the %change in a 308. I would bite the bullet and re-barrel.
 
Tear it apart completely and check everything. Scope rail screws, ring torque, verify action torque the whole works. If you can change the barrel nut off and get one you can verify torque on. I would go ground up. Unless it's Hornady brass, then I would toss it and try lapua.
 
Shoot it now. Don't change 5 things at a time.

No need to shoot 100 rounds but take it out and give it a fair chance.

I am a little concerned that your bolt handle is touching the chassis. That cannot be a good thing.
 
I think I will correct that issue with the handle and stop and try duplicate the ladder test as well as see if I get a poor factory grouping again as well.

Not going to tear it apart anymore as others have suggested , it has been torn apart and checked enough times already.I have never had an issue developing a load with such issue.


Shooter ----/ said:
Shoot it now. Don't change 5 things at a time.

No need to shoot 100 rounds but take it out and give it a fair chance.

I am a little concerned that your bolt handle is touching the chassis. That cannot be a good thing.
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What brass?
What are you measuring powder with?
Have you done some dry firing with that gun?
Can you shoot with a friend and do the flinch test? He loads the gun with or without a live round and you shoot it to test your reaction to the 338's recoil. You might be surprised.
I have the Savage 110 FCP HS Precision in .338LM. Just recieved my powder and now waiting for a new RCBS powder dispenser.
You mentioned putting it back into the old stock. Please explain?
 
tigrr said:
What brass? Lapua
What are you measuring powder with?RCBS Chargemaster combo
Have you done some dry firing with that gun? yes
Can you shoot with a friend and do the flinch test? He loads the gun with or without a live round and you shoot it to test your reaction to the 338's recoil. You might be surprised.Not exactly, but same results from two shooters , video of him and I shooting, all was good
I have the Savage 110 FCP HS Precision in .338LM. Just recieved my powder and now waiting for a new RCBS powder dispenser.
You mentioned putting it back into the old stock. Please explain?
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Savage long range hunter was the original unit
 
Did you do load developement with the action in the long range hunter stock?
Is the barrel still free floating in the shroud?
The shroud is sitting on the rest, can you move it back closer to the action.

Mine likes the moly coated Hornady 285gr match. Have 5 more bullets to try though.
 
Never did try the original stock, changed that before it was fired.

Yes, nothing touches the barrel.The shroud is back as far as it goes and it is also doweled into it's position.Mis-read your reply, I could try moving it back during shooting.

If I get time this weekend I will attemp to repeat the last test with the action screws @ 40 in/lbs and I will clear that bolt handle.





tigrr said:
Did you do load developement with the action in the long range hunter stock?
Is the barrel still free floating in the shroud?
The shroud is sitting on the rest, can you move it back closer to the action.

Mine likes the moly coated Hornady 285gr match. Have 5 more bullets to try though.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
As suggested by others I did a few checks on my brass and loaded rounds.I took video of the results to post here.

Video 1 is of brass prior to loading.To me it show no out of round or banana characteristics.I did this to all the fired brass from the last test also and they roll as smooth as this one.



This is of loaded round showing no run out to my eyes.



Was asked how loose the fired brass was and if I had to much brass in the neck, so this is in response to that.Not as loose as the individual suggests but can't be too far off.

 
Have you check fired case neck runout ?
Have you checked resized brass neck runout ?
Have you check loaded rounds bullet runout ?

Do this and then send me a check :)

Mush
 
Got a kind of same problem last year with a M77 mark II that used to shoot like a laser.
Wasted my time all summer long changing things and fiddling.
Someone here suggested to to check runout.
Bing !
My RCBS decapping stem got somewhat crooked and I was loading 0.015 bullets runout rounds !
Got a new redding set and bing, bing, bing... back to 0.5 MOA.

I use Sinclair Concentricity gauge, maybe Mystic Precision can hook you up to something.

Mush
 
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