NEW Leica CRF-PRO handheld rangefinders with Applied Ballistics onboard!!
- Thread starter Shooting Warehouse
- Start date
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I don’t have a Garmin compatible watch to check but I’m 99% certain you can - as you can pair a Leica GEOVID Pro to a Garmin and they essentially have the same software.
@Jess_misko and others who have purchased the CRF Pro.
Issues with the display brightness are being reported elsewhere -- have you noticed this ? Is this a real issue ?
Apparently the display is hard to see even at max brightness setting on sunny days...
Issues with the display brightness are being reported elsewhere -- have you noticed this ? Is this a real issue ?
Apparently the display is hard to see even at max brightness setting on sunny days...
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- Location
- Calgary, AB
Zook007 - This is being discussed at Leica, and it seems to be more of an individual "eye" problem. Several of my customers are very happy with theirs, and others are also finding it to be "dimmer" than what they'd like it to be, when compared to some other brands that might have much brighter LED's. Once Leica gets back to me with some answers, I will update here.
I had a customer here a few weeks ago, and when looking through MY personal Leica GEOVID Pro AB+, he said he could not see the reticle, yet I could see it VERY well. So there's definitely something at play with individual eyes too - it's not seemingly an issue with ALL eyes. If mine was not bright enough, I would have sent it in for "repair", but I am VERY happy with mine. Same with the CRF-PRO I have here for "demo" purposes.
It's certainly nowhere near as bright as the ELEMENT Optics rangefinders I have here, but they are the brightest I've ever seen on any rangefinder.
And the CRF-PRO I have here, is equally as bright/dim as the CRF-R and CRF-2400R I have here too....
Anyway, once Leica lets me know their findings, I will reply here with some more info.
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Zook007
I just spoke with the product manager at Leica. They have had 2 people contact them about the display not being visible in very bright sunlight. Both units were replaced.
I tried to find forums where people were complaining about not being able to see the reticle in bright sunlight, and I could find only ONE person complaining on Rokslide. And that unit was replaced - it's one of the 2 that Leica got contacted about. 2 other people just mentioned they had to put it on level 5 in bright sunlight.
If you have many others complaining about brightness issues - please forward them to me so I can send them to Leica to investigate.
Thanks
Robbie
Shooting Warehouse
Many Thanks for the info. What colour is the display ? Red ? Green ? Blue ?
There are people (mostly men) that are "red-blind". I am one. I've had a Zeiss Victory LRF (old now), that I could not see in bright light due to it being Red -- I wish manufacturers avoid this problem by making the displays in blue. I've had the same issue with a US Optics scope illuminated reticle, the first one I received had red, and had to send it back for blue, which is working great for me.
Perhaps you can share this with Leica, it may not be a brightness issue, but a colour issue, and actually it is a contrast issue. Those of us that do not see red well, cannot make out the contrast in bright light.
Yes, it is Rockslide where I saw the issue, If the unit was replaced, did Leica say there was then something wrong with the original unit ?
Cheers
Many Thanks for the info. What colour is the display ? Red ? Green ? Blue ?
There are people (mostly men) that are "red-blind". I am one. I've had a Zeiss Victory LRF (old now), that I could not see in bright light due to it being Red -- I wish manufacturers avoid this problem by making the displays in blue. I've had the same issue with a US Optics scope illuminated reticle, the first one I received had red, and had to send it back for blue, which is working great for me.
Perhaps you can share this with Leica, it may not be a brightness issue, but a colour issue, and actually it is a contrast issue. Those of us that do not see red well, cannot make out the contrast in bright light.
Yes, it is Rockslide where I saw the issue, If the unit was replaced, did Leica say there was then something wrong with the original unit ?
Cheers
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I get that. I too sometimes have an issue with red on green, but the Leica's seem to be fine for me. And yes it's RED. It's basically the same colour as all other manufacturers - I will share the feedback. I'm sure there must be some specific reason why the engineersdo red in most reticles and rangefinders, but again, I'll share the info with Leica.
And yes, the 2 replaced units had faulty illumination and were replaced. I don't have further info on the replacements sent to the 2 customers.
And I do personally think brightness is sometimes the issue. As mentioned before, the Element Optics rangefinders are CRAZY bright, and at brightest setting, it's so bright it actually is too much - I LOVE that. The fact I have to turn the brightness down as it's too bright. With my "sometimes" issue with red on a green background I have experienced with some RF's, it's not the case with the Element.
I wish Leica had the same super bright red illumination....
...I believe red and green LEDs are cheaper than blue LEDs and may be a cost saving measure by manufacturers, though hard to believe it really amounts to much, a couple of bucks per LED ? The blue illuminated reticle on my US Optics scope is excellent, and since I see it well, I hardly even need to crank it up to high. yet to find anyone that is BLUE-blind...
Anyways, I look forward to reading your post about what Leica has to say, as you mentioned above, as I was seriously considering a CRF Pro purchase.
Cheers
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Just some "advice" from Leica to people that might find the display too dim in very bright conditions:
Usually the biggest bright light issue is looking into bright light while ranging from shadow. The unit meters on the available light around the LRF, not the target. So if it’s in shade, it powers down, thinking it doesn’t need to be too bright. The quick fix is to move out of the shade/get some light on the front of the LRF.
Usually the biggest bright light issue is looking into bright light while ranging from shadow. The unit meters on the available light around the LRF, not the target. So if it’s in shade, it powers down, thinking it doesn’t need to be too bright. The quick fix is to move out of the shade/get some light on the front of the LRF.
I'm cursed with having some level of red/green colour disability. I have had Leica rangefinders since 2008. I have difficulty seing the display in bright conditions.
The best way I have found to overcome this is: range the object, then quickly place your other hand in front of the rangefinder.
Bingo, the display is highly visible.
The best way I have found to overcome this is: range the object, then quickly place your other hand in front of the rangefinder.
Bingo, the display is highly visible.
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Thanks for the tip AB2506. It helps when we share what works. SO I appreciate you adding this.
Cheers
Robbie
Seems Leica (and perhaps other manufacturers doing the same) should not use ambient light to decide for the shooter what is bright enough -- maybe just allowing the shooter to choose the level of brightness he prefers would be best ? As I said earlier I have had the same issue in the past with my (then top of the line) Zeiss Victory LRF. Moving to another location to get out of the sun, is not a practical solution, as it may spook the animal being hunted, or if in competition place one away from the firing position. Seems to me using BLUE instead of RED in the display would solve all issues...? ...or maybe BLUE will be also washed out in bright ambient light...
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Unfortunately It seems to be an industry-wide standard - and there's probably specific reasons the engineers use the red LED's, but I'm not privvy to those reasons... But Leica did say to me "we are working on incorporating new displays in future LRFs".... I guess we'll see what they come up with in future.
I had a chance to go into Cabelas and look through 3 different brand rangefinders, Sig Kilo5K, Leica CRF Pro, and the current Vortex Razor, of all 3, the Leica was the dimmest, so dim in fact that when sighting to one of the windows of the store with a sunny day outside, the measured distance display would fade out. The Sig 5K was very bright and so was the vortex. This is unfortunate, as I like the fact that the Leica has AB built in with the optional Elite upgrade, which is not available on the Sig (it only has AB Ultralite, good to 800m, but no option to upgrade to Elite). For me the vortex is not an option, as I prefer to stay with AB software, as opposed to GeoBallistics in the Vortex.
Shooting Warehouse -- would there be a way to inquire with Leica, if they can pump up the brightness on their CRF Pro ? Did the replacement units mentioned above have their display brighness pumped up beyond what they are shiping with now ?
In all fairness, Ihave no idea if this issue of brightness has come up before with the Leica CRFs, but like I also mentioned, my old Zeiss Victory PRF has the same issue. I appreciated the 'trick" mentioned above of placing one's hand in front of the finder once the distance has been measured, but without being able to see the washed out display in bright light, how would I know I got the correct object measured ? before I put my hand in front ?
Another interesting bit in the 3-way comparison was the size of the lenses in front, not the ocular. Sig's were the significantlly largest, and Leica's were the smallest, with Vortex's in the middle. Not sure if this really impacts things at all, though I assume larger lenses cost more, so to use them would seem to mean they are needed to perhaps provide better resolution, etc. ?? All 3 are 7x25's (seven power with 25mm diam. wide ocular).
Both the Sig 5K and the leica CRF cost about the same , a little over $1,000 CAD. I would like to upgrade from my Zeiss Victory, and looking at these above so that I will not have to upgrade again... I do not plan to have to shoot anything at 5K, but wil be happy knowing I am good to go for hunting and anything else under 1.5K or so, if I want to play shooting targets at distance.
Would be keen to hear what Leica might have ot say on the brightness....
- Location
- Calgary, AB
To try and answer some of your questions/observations....
There is NO way to make the LED's brighter - as it would be a hardware limitation, and as previously mentioned, Leica are working on development of a better LED system, but it would be for future models. I spoke with Leica Service in the US at length, and they have had very few calls about brightness.
And also, when you're standing INSIDE a store, looking out to a window, the brightness will be dimmed, as it takes the ambient light in the store into account - almost like when using it at night, when the LED dims to it's lowest level.
I have been using their 2800.com, 3500.com, Geovid Pro, Geovid Pro AB+ and the CRF-PRO and honestly I don't have any issues with brightness, but people's eyes are different, and that could be an issue. Just like some being "red blind" and others being "green blind".
But anyway, a brighter LED is something they're working on, but most probably only for the next gen of RF units.
The lens sizes measured, and not for the oculars - they are for the objective lenses. The Sig and Vortex both have 25mm objective (front) lenses, and the Leica has a 24mm objective, so they're all basically using the same size objective - which is the lens that lets in the light for light gathering purposes. The ocular is of lesser importance compared to the objective.
One of THE best handheld rangefinders today, is the Revic BR-4. And I would buy it before I bought the Leica or the Sig. Its more money but you get a lot more RF for that money.
Shooting Warehouse -- Thanks for the reply. The BR-4 does look good, though I already have a Kestrel with AB and am looking for a RF to talk to it as well, and do not want to be mixing and matching ballistic software, apps, etc. to confuse me even more...
Maybe I'll continue using the KISS approach and keep using my Zeiss Victory and manual entries to the Kestrel... Cheers!
