New M&P 9MM Arrived
- Thread starter Canuck44
- Start date
Big JD-From the hills
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Saskatchewan.
Can the mag safty be removed? Can one get pinned mags, and not the short plastic base mags(that I so dearly hate)?
Yes the mag saftey can be removed. See http://www.burwellgunsmithing.com/M&P2.htm
You can also buy it this way.
No pinned mag's available from what I have seen.
Given the gun comes with and without a mag safety and are identiclal in every other respect I would not be quite so quick with the answer. HQ has never ruled on the removal of the mag safety on the Hi-Power question and from what I understand has yet to decide on the S&W.
While the non mag safety guns have a warning on the slide I understand not all pistols sold initially have the markings.
Appendix 1 E though is clear that Disconnection or disabling of any safety device on any gun is not permitted.
Safety Officers are not expected to be experts on the nuiances of every gun out there so removal of same is not likely going to be questioned if the shooter claimed the gun "came that way" because some do. I also understand you can buy parts from S&W to remove this option.
All that said the mag safety does not affect the trigger pull in any way or the free falling of the mags. Not sure why you would want to remove it. You can still prove your gun is empty in the normal fashion you just have to insert a mag in the gun AFTER you close the slide. Until I hear differently my mag disconnect will remain in the gun on my M&P.
Take Care
Bob
While the non mag safety guns have a warning on the slide I understand not all pistols sold initially have the markings.
Appendix 1 E though is clear that Disconnection or disabling of any safety device on any gun is not permitted.
Safety Officers are not expected to be experts on the nuiances of every gun out there so removal of same is not likely going to be questioned if the shooter claimed the gun "came that way" because some do. I also understand you can buy parts from S&W to remove this option.
All that said the mag safety does not affect the trigger pull in any way or the free falling of the mags. Not sure why you would want to remove it. You can still prove your gun is empty in the normal fashion you just have to insert a mag in the gun AFTER you close the slide. Until I hear differently my mag disconnect will remain in the gun on my M&P.
Take Care
Bob
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- Location
- Medicine Hat
I spoke to Robert Ray at IDPA HQ this morning. We discussed the issue of the mag disconnect removal on the S&W M&P model.
Because IDPA could be found liable if it were to allow the removal of the mag disconnect (It is considered by the manufacturer to be a safety device), it's removal is considered contrary to IDPA rules and guns so altered would not be allowed to compete in IDPA. That is IDPA's official policy.
He went on further to say IDPA does not expect it's SO's to be firearm engineers. Nor does IDPA expect SO's to be contacting S&W to determine if a particular gun was shipped from the factory with or without the mag disconnect. If the SO KNOWS the gun came with a mag disconnect then it would be within the SO's rights to disallow the gun. In the absence of this knowledge guns without the mag disconnect are to be allowed to shoot IDPA as there is no way of telling whether the gun came with or without the mag disconnect. Some guns were shipped without the slide warning that the gun did not have the mag disconnect. Both versions are available for sale to the general public.
My recommendation to our SO's is to accept the guns as presented to the match. The removal of the mag disconnect, if indeed it was removed, does not improve the function of the gun in any way. It just allows the striker to fall without a mag being inserted. Our primary function as a SO is to ensure matches are conducted in a safe manner and the participants enjoy their sport. With that in mind I am sure we will apply the rules of the game in a fair and understanding manner.
Take Care
Bob
Because IDPA could be found liable if it were to allow the removal of the mag disconnect (It is considered by the manufacturer to be a safety device), it's removal is considered contrary to IDPA rules and guns so altered would not be allowed to compete in IDPA. That is IDPA's official policy.
He went on further to say IDPA does not expect it's SO's to be firearm engineers. Nor does IDPA expect SO's to be contacting S&W to determine if a particular gun was shipped from the factory with or without the mag disconnect. If the SO KNOWS the gun came with a mag disconnect then it would be within the SO's rights to disallow the gun. In the absence of this knowledge guns without the mag disconnect are to be allowed to shoot IDPA as there is no way of telling whether the gun came with or without the mag disconnect. Some guns were shipped without the slide warning that the gun did not have the mag disconnect. Both versions are available for sale to the general public.
My recommendation to our SO's is to accept the guns as presented to the match. The removal of the mag disconnect, if indeed it was removed, does not improve the function of the gun in any way. It just allows the striker to fall without a mag being inserted. Our primary function as a SO is to ensure matches are conducted in a safe manner and the participants enjoy their sport. With that in mind I am sure we will apply the rules of the game in a fair and understanding manner.
Take Care
Bob
So Bob, since you 'let the cat out of the bag' in your first post I guess you'll have no choice but to keep the mag disconnect functional at all IDPA matches.....
Of course. I never had any intention of removing it in the first place. I don't see any SO's ever making this call in any event. There are more important things to be watching for like making sure the shooter has a cover garment. I have witnessed a situation where that was missed. Easy to do during a long day SOing a match.
Take Care
Bob
Take Care
Bob
I disagree. That kind of check would be appropriate at the 'Chrono Stage' of a match. Besides checking for ammo power factor compliance, a gun should be checked if it fit into the IDPA 'box', weighed to see if if it meets the division weight requirement, etc. A 'safety function test' should also be part of the stage.
In fact, I have personal knowledge from the Italian & European IDPA Championships of an individual who was almost DQ'd because the grip safety on his 1911 didn't function as designed.
I set out HQ's response to my question regarding the mag disconnect and also their expectations regarding SO's.
Disagree if you want to but lets not give the impression that every match sanctioned or otherwise has a chrono test, equipment checks or a scale. Because they don't as you well know.
Folks I have met that shoot IDPA play within the rules, are out to compete and have fun. When I witness the first attempt at deliberate cheating I will post it here. When you are playing for a 12 cent certificate there isn't much incentive to cheat.
Removing safety systems from any gun is against the rules of IDPA.
Enough said.
Take Care
Bob
Disagree if you want to but lets not give the impression that every match sanctioned or otherwise has a chrono test, equipment checks or a scale. Because they don't as you well know.
Folks I have met that shoot IDPA play within the rules, are out to compete and have fun. When I witness the first attempt at deliberate cheating I will post it here. When you are playing for a 12 cent certificate there isn't much incentive to cheat.
Removing safety systems from any gun is against the rules of IDPA.
Enough said.
Take Care
Bob
Bob, if you think there's no cheating going on at IDPA matches then you're being naive.
and if you think that all that is at stake is a '12 cent certificate', particularly at the higher level matches, you're being infinitely naive.
"Bob, if you think there's no cheating going on at IDPA matches then you're being naive."
If you are suggesting that shooter who shoot IDPA matches "Cheat" then you have an incredible view on life not to mention what you think of your fellow shooters.
"and if you think that all that is at stake is a '12 cent certificate', particularly at the higher level matches, you're being infinitely naive."
Mass what you fail to grasp is the most of the shooters that shoot IDPA don't care what goes on "at the higher level matches" nor do I think the top shooters in IDPA "at the higher level matches" cheat. By extension you are suggesting that shooters who attend major matches cheat. Sorry Mass but I don't acccept that and I doubt many at the matches would either. You might want to take a deep breath before responding.
Read what I wrote, "Folks I have met that shoot IDPA play within the rules, are out to compete and have fun." I must run with a different crowd then you do.
and "When you are playing for a 12 cent certificate there isn't much incentive to cheat." Read this one twice. How you get to "major matches" and all that is stake there is quite beyond me.
Take Care
Bob
If you are suggesting that shooter who shoot IDPA matches "Cheat" then you have an incredible view on life not to mention what you think of your fellow shooters.
"and if you think that all that is at stake is a '12 cent certificate', particularly at the higher level matches, you're being infinitely naive."
Mass what you fail to grasp is the most of the shooters that shoot IDPA don't care what goes on "at the higher level matches" nor do I think the top shooters in IDPA "at the higher level matches" cheat. By extension you are suggesting that shooters who attend major matches cheat. Sorry Mass but I don't acccept that and I doubt many at the matches would either. You might want to take a deep breath before responding.
Read what I wrote, "Folks I have met that shoot IDPA play within the rules, are out to compete and have fun." I must run with a different crowd then you do.
and "When you are playing for a 12 cent certificate there isn't much incentive to cheat." Read this one twice. How you get to "major matches" and all that is stake there is quite beyond me.
Take Care
Bob
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