New Marlin XLR > Long Range!!

BigRedd compare apples to oranges? wow no kidding. :confused: his supermarket doesnt even stock both types of fruits, thats why his brain is sometimes so malnurished he cant think right when typing some posts. :rolleyes:

A 308 loaded to max operating pressures in a 24" tube will run a 150 gr. @ 2800-2900 fps, and 165's @ 2700-2800 fps.

A 'lever revolution' 30-30 with push a 160 gr. @ 2400 fps.
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and it seems its Ballistic CoEfficient isn't even all that high, rated at .335. If you plug a spitzer boat tail (like a Nosler Ballistic Tip 150 gr.) into a 30-30 Win and single load it, the ballistics match up favorably to the Lever Revolution load. Granted magazine capacity would be limited to either one spitzer or a tube full of flat noses.

Sighted in for 200 yards, this is how the new 30-30 load stacks up against a 308 Winchester...

30-30 Win 160 gr. Lever Revoultion @ 2400 fps
100 yards ~ +3", 2150 fps, 1640 ft-lbs, 1.2" drift
200 yards ~ -0.1", 1915 fps, 1305 ft-lbs, 5.3" drift
300 yards ~ -12.6", 1700 fps, 1025 ft-lbs, 12.5" drift
400 yards ~ -37.3", 1500 fps, 800 ft-lbs, 23.6" drift
500 yards ~ -77.5", 1330 fps, 630 ft-lbs, 39.1" drift

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30-30 Win 150 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip *single shot* @ 2390 fps
100 yards ~ +3", 2200 fps, 1610 ft-lbs, 1.0" drift
200 yards ~ +0.3", 2010 fps, 1350 ft-lbs, 4.0" drift
300 yards ~ -11.1", 1840 fps, 1125 ft-lbs, 9.3" drift
400 yards ~ -32.7", 1675 fps, 935 ft-lbs, 17.4" drift
500 yards ~ -66.8", 1520 fps, 770 ft-lbs, 28.4" drift

-------

308 Win 150 gr. Hornady SST @ 2820 fps
100 yards ~ +3", 2600 fps, 2245 ft-lbs, 0.8" drift
200 yards ~ +2.3", 2385 fps, 1895 ft-lbs, 3.3" drift
300 yards ~ -4.5", 2180 fps, 1585 ft-lbs, 7.7" drift
400 yards ~ -18.6", 1990 fps, 1320 ft-lbs, 14.3" drift
500 yards ~ -41.5", 1810 fps, 1090 ft-lbs, 23.4" drift

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if I wanted 308 performance out of a stainless-laminate lever gun, I would not go with a 30-30 marlin, hoping it will acheive 300 yard accuracy with the only factory load capable of such performance. I would grab a new stainless laminate BLR in 308 Win!

please notice the downrange ballistic data and remember next time your brain tries to think about how some new fangled rubber tip 30-30 bullet is better than a 308 Winchester. sorry Redd ;) ​
 
Geez T/B even though you failed to compare these calibres using bullets of the same weight, I can't help but notice just how close the ballistics are... thanx for the endorsement:cool:
We are all aware of the ability of hand-loaded ammo to perform outside of Factory specs and my comment was strictly in reference to factory fodder.
I am certainly not saying this rifle and ammo will deliver more velocity or kill any better than a .308. My statement was simply that it should shoot as well as a .308. You can read anything into an ambiguous statement like that... if you are looking for a reason to be contrary that is.:rolleyes:
If you think this statement is worthy of another ballistics lesson then that is cool ... you make whatever hay you need to stroke your ego pal... no worries.:(

Well at least two of the respondents are clearly not fans of the new Marlin Lever or the new Hornady Soft tip ammo... what a surprise....;)
 
While we're on the apples to oranges subject it should be noted that the new lever revolution is the one and only brand of factory ammo out there. At this time the pointy bullets themselves are not available to hand loaders.

So, we have 30-30 rounds of lever revolution that must be able to safely be fired from Auntie Bessys rusted out 90 year old Winclakster rifle. ie. not a lot of pressure. So to compare it to .308 handloads isn't too fair. 'REDD compares it to factory stuff which is as close as we can get to an even playing field at this time. But remember the .308 hasn't been around that long compared to the 30-30. And it was always designed with much higher pressure and for modern rifles.

Now, there will come a day when the lever revolution bullets will be available for handloaders. With a modern very strong lever action (Marlin) its interesting to ponder how much more velocity one would get over the factory lever revolution ammo. I suggest this difference will be signifigant ;)

I don't think uncle 'REDD was suggesting that the 30-30 will put the .308 into obscurity. But he was stating that the distance between the two just closed up a whole bunch.:p
 
todbartell said:
30-30 Win 160 gr. Lever Revoultion @ 2400 fps

300 yards ~ -12.6", 1700 fps, 1025 ft-lbs, 12.5" drift




[/FONT]308 Win 150 gr. Hornady SST @ 2820 fps

300 yards ~ -4.5", 2180 fps, 1585 ft-lbs, 7.7" drift
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those are close? :confused: since the big deal was lever gun ammo at 300yrds......
Bullets of a different weight? c'mon Red, 10grs isn't going to make much of a diff.
 
FWIW, the 308 Win in factory ammo form will launch a 150 gr. @ 2820 fps

I could compare the 165 gr. 308 factory ammo to the 30-30 lever revolution ammo too, but it would only make the gap wider in downrange energy and wind drift etc.

30-30 is a 200 yard brush gun, don't matter what bullet you got plugged in the end of that dumpy lil case.
​
 
Salty said:
So, we have 30-30 rounds of lever revolution that must be able to safely be fired from Auntie Bessys rusted out 90 year old Winclakster rifle. ie. not a lot of pressure. So to compare it to .308 handloads isn't too fair. 'REDD compares it to factory stuff which is as close as we can get to an even playing field at this time. But remember the .308 hasn't been around that long compared to the 30-30. And it was always designed with much higher pressure and for modern rifles.

Now, there will come a day when the lever revolution bullets will be available for handloaders. With a modern very strong lever action (Marlin) its interesting to ponder how much more velocity one would get over the factory lever revolution ammo. I suggest this difference will be signifigant.
Click to expand...
actually, the Lever Revolution ammo is loaded to as fast as the Marlin/Winchester rifles can handle, 40,000 cup, using the 'Light Magnum' concept of boosted velocity. Using currently available handloading powders, a guy could not touch the 2400 fps they get with the 160 gr. 30-30 load, 2250-2300 fps would be the max.

The original 30-30 Win load in 1895 featured a 160 gr. @ 1970 fps.
 
The original 30-30 Win load in 1895 featured a 160 gr. @ 1970 fps.
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With blackpowder ;)

Anyway WTF were we arguing about again? That was thismorning I wrote that, a few beers ago :D

But this
with the 160 gr. 30-30 load, 2250-2300 fps would be the max.
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looks like 20" barrel speeds to me. Never bothered chronying 30-30 with my carbines. I should try....
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but the limiting factor in the 30-30 is the thin brass, it just won't handle .308 pressures.

BR, I didn't say I wasn't a fan, I just don't think that it would be suitable as a .308 replacement for longer shots on game like moose, elk or even a big, tough deer. At 200 yards I don't think a White tail would notice the difference on a broadside shot.

But also consider the availability of premium bullets like the TSX, Partition etc for the .308. I can't see how the thutty-thutty can be compared to it.
 
Tag me in... listen I am not a lever fan and I am usually the first guy to call a lever a canopener or poke fun at the Cowboys.:p
I like long barrels and bolt actions.... and there is no denying case capacity.

But lets give this argument a name shall we... stupid.:rolleyes:
I shoot hundreds of guns for testing every year as part of my job... most of them are 30 cal deer rifles and a ####-load of them are .308s and 30-30's.
I can count the number of 24 inch barreled .308s I have seen and shot on one hand... most of the rifles used for hunting are of the 20 inch lever or the 22 inch pump/semi variety.

For the record... Usually factory loaded 160 -168 grain bullets from a .308 Lever or a pump gun never reach 2600 fps over the chrony... usually it is closer to 2400fps... you get the point!!!:eek:
The 30-30 with the old flat/round point factory ammo is even more disappointing when trying to sight them or get any kind of mid range performance. Even at short range the accuracy is negligible from the tube guns due to the ammo restrictions. That is why so many guys handload there own 30-30 bullets, to squeeze out as much performance as they can.;)
Do you fellas realize just how many tube fed lever actions are still used for hunting in North America..... I would wager ten to one against all other actions.:confused:
Hornady and Marlin have hit a home run with this new ammo, and it will be received with open arms by the greater shooting community.:D
The expected and typical disapproval and nay-saying by the usual suspects with their limited and one dimensional shooting and hunting experience is not going to change that fact.:rolleyes:
 
Geez Bigredd
How did you get on this side of the fence? :D
I'm thinking the new amo (in 30-30) will prove closer to the 300 Savage than the 308 in performance. Still a giant leap in performance.
arlin is first I line with guns to use it, where is USRA?

Note: Bigredd is selling all his Tikkas in favor of Lever guns.






HAHAHAHAHA :D
 
BIGREDD said:
For the record... Usually factory loaded 160 -168 grain bullets from a .308 Lever or a pump gun never reach 2600 fps over the chrony... usually it is closer to 2400fps... you get the point!!!:eek:
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I've never chronographed factory .308 ammo, but that sounds a tad low. How does 180gr factory ammo perform?:confused:

Maybe it's because you are using a pump action.;)
 
BIGREDD said:
Hornady and Marlin have hit a home run with this new ammo, and it will be received with open arms by the greater shooting community.:D
The expected and typical disapproval and nay-saying by the usual suspects with their limited and one dimensional shooting and hunting experience is not going to change that fact.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...


BIGREDD said:
I shoot hundreds of guns for testing every year as part of my job... most of them are 30 cal deer rifles
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Hmmmm........ .30 cal being such a "compromise" caliber....... Hmmmm..... one dimensional..... hmmmmm....... East Coast Deer hunting... Hmmmm.....

give me a break. the only home run for lever revolution is something the old biased farts writing for gun mags and Selling firearms to yack about. it will help sell more lever guns I'm sure. seems to be just that. an over hyped marketing ploy....
 
FWIW, 308 Win 180 gr. Remington Cor Lokt factory ammo chrony'd @ 2522 fps avg out of my friends 20" Model Seven stainless rifle.

I dont mind the 30-30, it works quite well within its capabilities. If I owned a new Marlin w/ 24" tube, I would be more inclined to rechamber to 30-30 Ackley Improved, than shoot lever revolution factory ammo.

​
 
JYC enters the 300 savage - he's read articles about that old round loaded to .308 territory with modern blah, blah, blah. Now bartell sucks it up and states that maybe with sharper shoulders the old tudda tudda might be worth something blah, blah, blah. Big Red takes a time out to hunker back and reload.

'nother weekend debate with the homeys :rolleyes: :D
 
Redd goes into the corner with his elbows up and gets mauled by the defense from the west.:eek:
Bartell fires with a shot from the point... and scores again with actual range time and chrony numbers to back his argument.:cool:
Phibber draws a penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct for resorting to down homer comments.:(
Salty gets another beer from the concession and sits back to watch as the game goes into overtime.:p
 
I shot my first deer with a 30-30 Winchester. The flat point Sierra bullet managed to kill the 2pt mulie 30 yards away, despite the fact it had no light magnum technology and soft rubber pointy tip ;)
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I shot my first deer and my first bear with a 32 special... in the 70's. I thought that levers were the stuff of legends. I fondeled my first centerfire like she was my first date...:redface:
 
Took enough Business courses in High School and Uni to know exactly what "lever revolution" is :p a bunch of numbers is irrelevent at this point :p


"down Homer" WTF?

have you noticed most gun writers and gun shop salesmen are overweight aged white males? not all, but most. so I see it as a valid statement ;)
 
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