New member, looking to upgrade my Remington 700 PSS. Expert advice requested!

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longarm21

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Hi folks, I am a new member to CGN. I picked up this rifle from a friend of mine who is also military and as you can see its pretty well stock! Not much to it. This is a 700 PSS (note not SPS) from the late 90's early 2000s.

features:
26" heavy barrel
trigger adjusted to a nice crisp light pull.
mag fed (4rnds)
HS stock.
Tasco Super Sniper 12x42
A.R.M.S. Quick Remove Lever Throw Scope rings
Double Rail
Cheap cheek rest (its literally a piece of plastic that appears to have been bent with a heat gun)

It has about 200 rnds fired through it, not much at all in fact when I took it out, it didn't really seem to shoot all that accurate for the first 30 rnds then it settled down. I would wager he didn't even fire that many through it. I'm guessing it was a safe queen. With that said I have fired about 60 rounds through it and it is firing very accurately for me now.

Lately i've just been getting familiar with it, and shooting it out to different ranges. Most enjoyable of which is hitting the 6 inch metal gong at the 600m mark at the local range 5 for 5 a few weeks ago.

Anyways I am looking at possible future upgrades, as in time I want to get more serious with practicing long range shooting.

Here is a list of options I've come up with:

20 MOA Single Rail - This is a must. $120 installed

Large bolt knob - the factory one is small, and I keep smashing my thumb off the scope when I use the action. $50 installed

To be honest the magazine sucks, it holds 4 rounds and I only have one. I have so far not been able to find additional mags as this is an old model of the rifle. So here are my options. I'm going from prices from Alberta Tact Rifle Supply.
Install a badger ordnance magazine kit $550 installed

or

Upgrade to an AICS stock, which would give me a better stock and a mag kit in one! $900 for the stock, plus unkown cost to install.

Thoughts? Any input would be appreciated.
 
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Congratulations on the fine shooting, going 5 for 5 at 600 yards is an accomplishment, something to be proud of! I am no expert, but the stock upgrade could be offset with the sale of your current stock, you might get about $300 for the HS the rifle currently wears. I wouldn't pay someone to install it either, check you tube for videos, it is a very simple install for a do it yourself'er as is the 20 MOA rail--do that one yourself too. The next thing would be a new barrel, but only if your current barrel is not providing satisfactory groups. If you have the barrel done, you will likely need the services of a good gun smith, this would be a good time to have the action trued and the lugs lapped and squared off.
 
consider the following:

Bed that stock and action - if not done, this is your single biggest improvment in the mechanics of the rifle.

Learn to reload.... I bet with tuned ammo and proper bedding, you have the potential of a 1/2 min gun. That is plenty good for anything you will likely want to do short of competition.

Forget about an extended mag and put in a single shot follower. When you reload, you will likely find that the bullets need to be seated longer then the mag length for best performance. now you can just stuff in an endless supply of ammo, one at a time.

There is little point in changing the stock IF it fits you and from the sounds of it, it does. A new softer recoil pad will be nice. Yes, an extended bolt knob is great.

Make an investment in better optics rings and bases. See my website for lots of info and tuning tips

Can help with most of what you need but I would see what you have now in your hands before worrying about changing it out. Rem's of the 90's were likely at the peak of their manf goodness.

you likely have a gem that just needs a little polishing to shine.

Jerry
 
Keep in mind that the AICS stock is pretty much the heaviest stock out there ... BUT by the time you buy a new stock (only if it doesn't feel right for you) and buy a bottom metal you've arrived at the price of the chassis. Those HS stocks are good quality. I would change it unless you really don't like it. If you do sell it, it would likely take only a couple of days to move it on the EE.

If I were you, I would take pretty much all the money you are willing to spend and I'd be buying a top notch scope. Bedding can be die at home for 50-100$ if you are patient and careful.

I recently bought something similar, only cheaper, an SPS Tactical. I bought a Boyd's Stock (150$ to my door) and will bed it and voila! I already have an assortment of scopes to slap on it. In its current version with the floppy Hogue stock and a Bushy 3200 it's already shooing sub-MOA with handloads. I have high hopes for bedding and a stiffer stock.
 
I have few AIC 2.0 folding stocks and yes they are heavy but it sure is built tough. BUT, any HS precision or any stocks with good bedding and free floating will do the trick. if you want more accuracy, AICS stock wont help that much.
do some work to it, and shoot it until you burn the barrel, get match grade barrel upgrade in the future.
However, I am not a fan of cheap scopes for accruacy rifles... I just do not trust them.. I would invest some $$ on a better scope before doing changing stocks or anything else with it.
Sightron, Vortex, Bushnell Elites are all affortable scopes that seems to work well on my short actions.

this being said, if you dont have a budget, than just change whatever you want to make your self happy lol
 
Is a tasco super sniper a cheap scope? If I'm not mistaken it was in competition with Leupold for a military contract, Leupold won, and the value of this scope went down. Also I understand US Naval Specwar picked up a contract and utilized this particular scope for some time. I mean its certainly on my list, but I honestly was under the impression that this one would suffice for now. I mean I can't afford a 2000 dollar swarovski scope, but yes I suppose $1000 dollars would get me something very nice.

I understand where everyone is coming from on the stock. It actually does fit me well, and I'm comfortable using it. The biggest thing is I'd actually like to increase my mag capacity because frankly I'd like to be able to load more rounds at the range. So I understand there are mag kits that can be installed such as the badger short action rem700 kit but it requires having someone to cut the stock to make room for it?

Lets say I dropped the idea of the stock, got a mag kit, scope rings, and a nice 20 MOA base, would this be a decent start? Can the scope wait?
 
The Super Sniper is a decent scope for its generation circa 1980's. Nowadays, things have progressed alot further as far as optics, tracking and weight are concerned.

Depending on the make, $1000 will get you alot of scope...

Jerry
 
So I should be looking at bumping the scope up on my priority list then.

Also I need a little more information. When people say I should get my rifle bedded, is that to say that I should have the aluminum bedding replaced with something else? Please explain.
Also, truing action etc? I will search for more info on this forum, but I am not exactly certain what this is referring to.

I have used black guns most of my adult life, but when it comes to bolt action and precision rifles I have no clue on gunsmithing etc. New to this game.

Also when Kimmer82 refers to the barrel, is this PSS barrel not considered match grade? Its actually nearly brand new. There haven't been even 300 rounds put through it. Would take me a while to burn it out! If I'm not mistaken these are good for like 3000+ rounds? If someone could educate me on these things i'd be very grateful.
 
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longarm21 said:
The biggest thing is I'd actually like to increase my mag capacity because frankly I'd like to be able to load more rounds at the range. So I understand there are mag kits that can be installed such as the badger short action rem700 kit but it requires having someone to cut the stock to make room for it?
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almost all after market DBM kits will require the stock to be inletted, if you plan on upgrading the stock i would wait, if not then i would highly recomend sending it to a compitant smith that inlets stocks. it can be done with a dremal and files , but a mill will do a WAY nicer job of it

longarm21 said:
So I should be looking at bumping the scope up on my priority list then.
Click to expand...


cant hit what you cant see! iv always run mid grade optics, then few years back i wanted to play with the big boys, and dropped the coin on a schmidt and bender, best move i have ever made! now its 2 years 3 S&Bs later, and i will be HARD pressed to buy another brand
 
Thats fair, the 10x makes it hard to really see out to the ranges that I've been shooting to - around 600m lately. I have trouble seeing the holes even at 200-300m with the targets that have the orange impact holes.

To be honest I quite like the stock, I just thought getting an AICS would fix the whole mag/stock inletting issue quick and dirty. Also thought the AICS would cost about the same as getting the mag well installed since I wouldnt' attempt that on my own, and the AICS I can likely do by myself. Also I hate the cheek rest I have now its a piece of crap. Might have to do something about that.
 
http://www .atlasworxs.com/cart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId
Check this out for a more affordable accuracy international mag bottom metal. Apparently hey will ship directly from Australia to Canada and cost around $150.
That said I have never owned one but reviews on the net seem to be favourable.

Remove the space after www for the link to work
 
Rem's of the 90's were likely at the peak of their manf goodness.
Click to expand...

Amen Mystic. I have a 91 Rem 700 VLS fluted stainless. Action is the same, shoots like a house on fire. I never load more than one round. No magazine for me.

Supersniper will do the job. It is a fair scope. And yes, optics have come a long way, however, I still use a Bausch and Lomb Tactical 10x and it works just fine. I'll keep it until it breaks or I find something better.

If the gun works for you, don't change a thing.

Bedding does not require you to remove the bedding block. All it does is lay a fine film of epoxy in the stock to perfectly match the action so that when you tighten the action into the stock it does not get twisted or torqued. Basically, bedding means that every space between the stock and the action is filled with epoxy. These spaces are sometimes only a few thousands of a inch wide, but the are enough to allow the action to flex when you tighten the screws. This will affect your accuracy.

Trueing the action requires a gunsmith to get involved.

Here's a link to explain what's involved. http://www.siskguns.com/sisk rifles - comments.htm

Have the barrel crown checked for imperfections and re-crown as required.

I would do the bedding first, check the crown, have a gunsmith look at trueing the action. It may not be required after all.

I would stick with the supersniper for now. I have a buddy who shoots with it, albeit on a 6.5, but he's out to 850 yards no problem. It has decent light gathering and enough room for adjustment out to the ranges you'll be able to shoot at with a 308. Unless you like lobbing them like a mortar.


You change stock, you gotta do the bedding again of course. Something else to look at is a free floating barrel. With the action installed, run a piece of paper between the barrel and the stock front to back as far as it will go and see if the barrel touches the stock anywhere. If so, you may want to relieve some of the stock material to ensure the barrel does not touch anywhere. A business card thickness is usually desired. This ensures that the stock does not touch and upset the natural harmonics of the barrel. This can also throw off you grouping.


What ammo were you using at the 600 mark? There is a lot of accuracy to be obtained doing handloads. And as Mystic says, it's something new to learn, it shoots better although not necessarily cheaper.


Barrel lapping when they are new is another consideration. Some guys swear by it. It takes some time but seems to help with fouling and grouping.

If you can consistently hit a gong at 600, maybe do some grouping at 600 and post the results. Shoot of sandbags though and not the wiley bipod. Better results. Besides, real snipers use bipods to keep their coffeepot from tipping into the fire.

Hope this helps.
 
An afterthought on barrel life. A 308 barrel in a Remi 700 shooting at a respectable 2800 FPS will last I'd say 7000 rounds before it starts to deteriorate. That's a lot of rounds. The more you push the velocity, the faster the barrel deteriorates. That said, other factors can speed that up. Irregular or incomplete cleaning, rust, overheating.

Your barrel will have a node (i.e. a bullet weight, shape and speed) at which it is most happy. This "node" will occur at more than one interval due to the harmonics of the barrel. Each node is related to how long and how fast a bullet travels along the length of the barrel and how the barrel reacts to it's passage. So you may find, for example, that a particular bullet performs really well at 2450 FPS, 2650 FPS and 2850 FPS. The decision to make is which one to utilize. The slower speed obviously will not work as it does not give you enough range ( too much drop and fade in wind) The faster one may work well but burn out your barrel in 2 or 3 thousand rounds. So you would opt for the middle one.

I put this a little simple, however, the point is that accuracy may sometimes be found at various speeds, but at the cost of barrel life. You have to weigh the benefit of pushing the bullet harder in order to gain small benefits in windy conditions at the cost of giving up barrel life. Drop is not an issue because it is consistent and can easily be corrected for by dialing in the scope.

One more link for you. Enjoy http://www.frfrogspad.com/loaddev.htm
 
Gootch said:
Amen Mystic. I have a 91 Rem 700 VLS fluted stainless. Action is the same, shoots like a house on fire. I never load more than one round. No magazine for me.

Supersniper will do the job. It is a fair scope. And yes, optics have come a long way, however, I still use a Bausch and Lomb Tactical 10x and it works just fine. I'll keep it until it breaks or I find something better.

If the gun works for you, don't change a thing.

Bedding does not require you to remove the bedding block. All it does is lay a fine film of epoxy in the stock to perfectly match the action so that when you tighten the action into the stock it does not get twisted or torqued. Basically, bedding means that every space between the stock and the action is filled with epoxy. These spaces are sometimes only a few thousands of a inch wide, but the are enough to allow the action to flex when you tighten the screws. This will affect your accuracy.

Trueing the action requires a gunsmith to get involved.

Here's a link to explain what's involved. http://www.siskguns.com/sisk rifles - comments.htm

Have the barrel crown checked for imperfections and re-crown as required.

I would do the bedding first, check the crown, have a gunsmith look at trueing the action. It may not be required after all.

I would stick with the supersniper for now. I have a buddy who shoots with it, albeit on a 6.5, but he's out to 850 yards no problem. It has decent light gathering and enough room for adjustment out to the ranges you'll be able to shoot at with a 308. Unless you like lobbing them like a mortar.


You change stock, you gotta do the bedding again of course. Something else to look at is a free floating barrel. With the action installed, run a piece of paper between the barrel and the stock front to back as far as it will go and see if the barrel touches the stock anywhere. If so, you may want to relieve some of the stock material to ensure the barrel does not touch anywhere. A business card thickness is usually desired. This ensures that the stock does not touch and upset the natural harmonics of the barrel. This can also throw off you grouping.


What ammo were you using at the 600 mark? There is a lot of accuracy to be obtained doing handloads. And as Mystic says, it's something new to learn, it shoots better although not necessarily cheaper.


Barrel lapping when they are new is another consideration. Some guys swear by it. It takes some time but seems to help with fouling and grouping.

If you can consistently hit a gong at 600, maybe do some grouping at 600 and post the results. Shoot of sandbags though and not the wiley bipod. Better results. Besides, real snipers use bipods to keep their coffeepot from tipping into the fire.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the detailed response!

As far as ammo goes I was using Federal 168 grain vital shok. Wasn't the best stuff out there but its what I had at the time. Anyways I'm not going to be firing any more of that crap through my rifle. I ended up buying 40 rnds of Hornady Match 162gr at Cabelas last week, so I'm looking forward to the temperature warming up at some point so I can head out to the range and work on some groups.

Temperature right now here was -35 today. Not so much fun at the range when its so cold your face hurts.
 
Sorry to bring back an old post, but could anyone tell me what my barrel twist might be? Bought this second hand, and the only info I could find was that this was made in 1:9 and 1:12. Sounds like alot of the heavy barreled varmint 26" are 1:12 now, but I'm not too sure about this one since its older.
 
Also, what brand of 20 MOA Rail, and Scope Rings would you recommend. I get the feeling my current ones are a little on the cheap side. What material? Steel?
 
I second Sightron, get a S3 6-24x or 8-32x in whichever reticle you prefer and get 20 moa Ken Farrell base you are gtg and like other said you can probably sell your Tasco Super sniper scope for good money, it is a rare item and someone will pay good price for it.
 
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