New Nightforce pricing
- Thread starter TSE JR
- Start date
That is very good pricing when compared to what retailers in the US are selling them for. I go back to the point I made in a previous post - Canadians consumers would get a better deal if we revisited NAFTA and harmonized the taxes we pay on goods made outside of North America. Furthermore, it's ridiculous that customs brokerage fees are built into the price of goods shipped either side of the line. They did away with the need for brokers in the EU years ago when they removed the borders between member EU states.
With the example of NightForce scopes it would be more efficient (given the current inadequacies of NAFTA) for NightForce to ship directly to Canada from their manufacturing facility in Japan than to ship to the US and then on to Canada.
Built into the price we pay for NXS scopes in Canada are:
1. US brokerage fees (landing the goods in the US from Japan)
2. US import duty
3. US State Department export license (fee charged by licensed exporter)
4. US/Canadian brokerage fees
5. Canadian import duty (as most of these scopes are manufactured outside of NATFA)
6. GST and provincial sales tax paid on importation to Canada Customs
7. GST/PST paid by the end consumer.
If you eliminated steps 1 to 4 we would see substantially more savings. And as you can see NAFTA, which was meant to promote free trade and turn North America into an economic power house, is a complete joke. As growth in the EU is set to surpass that in North America the Europeans can only be laughing at us.
With the example of NightForce scopes it would be more efficient (given the current inadequacies of NAFTA) for NightForce to ship directly to Canada from their manufacturing facility in Japan than to ship to the US and then on to Canada.
Built into the price we pay for NXS scopes in Canada are:
1. US brokerage fees (landing the goods in the US from Japan)
2. US import duty
3. US State Department export license (fee charged by licensed exporter)
4. US/Canadian brokerage fees
5. Canadian import duty (as most of these scopes are manufactured outside of NATFA)
6. GST and provincial sales tax paid on importation to Canada Customs
7. GST/PST paid by the end consumer.
If you eliminated steps 1 to 4 we would see substantially more savings. And as you can see NAFTA, which was meant to promote free trade and turn North America into an economic power house, is a complete joke. As growth in the EU is set to surpass that in North America the Europeans can only be laughing at us.
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Some of us are...........
1. Nightforce scopes are made in the USA
2. Same as 1
3. There is no fee involved to export scopes from the US to Canada. (For private use anyway, resale might be a different story)
Here is a Prime example of Cdn's taking it up the a$$
NF 12-42x56 Benchrest
Price I was quoted from a company in the US - $1274USD - exchange rate at say 0.04 on the dollar via CC = $1223 + $25 ship + 13% tax (for BC) = $1410 CDN landed to my door
TSE Price $1,449.00 + $15ish ship + GST = $1552
Still not on par with US prices. Is $140 worth it to me to get my own import cert and send it to the vendor? Damn rights it is.
I fully support Canadian business when I can, but I am not going to pay $140 more for a product just to buy it here. Now if it were say $1450 including tax and ship then ya, I would definitely buy one here. I know the retailers have to make a profit. But I do know that the US price I was given is also marked up for profit, so who knows what the actual "cost" on the scope is, but I do know it is below what I was quoted from the retailer.
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I have purchased many $1000's of Canon (Japanese made) items from the US, cameras, lenses, flashes etc both new and used and have NEVER been charged anything other than PST, GST and the $5 "Handling Fee" when I pick them up at the PO. Maybe I have just been lucky I guess.
Like I stated before, maybe "for resale" imports are different than personal use imports. I have never imported for resale.
I would love to buy strictly from Canadian retailers but it seems that CDN retailers (in every sector) seem to be of the mindset that they can keep their prices high because people are still buying.
Look at Indigo and Walmart now selling magazines and books at US prices, I think this trend will continue to other sectors if the dollar stays strong. Canadian's are now having their eye's opened to the fact that we have been getting screwed for too long.
Yes you have managed to avoid duty. However, since our shipments are of necessity larger and brokered we don't have this luxury.
So why are you blaming the retailer for the additional costs incurred by the government? Our prices are higher because as pointed out above they include both US and Canadian duties, and because shipping (real shipments, not having a single scope mailed to you) costs a whole lot more across the border than it should.
I hope I'm not dragging this thread too far beyond its stated theme, but brokerage fees are a byproduct of the third-party shipping company, not the government(s).
I import thousands of dollars worth of product from the US for re-sale and I use the postal service for this very reason.
I import thousands of dollars worth of product from the US for re-sale and I use the postal service for this very reason.
Redleg, I am not intending to blame the retailer per say. I believe that a greedy govt is partially to blame, but I when 1 company can sell an imported item sometimes $100's cheaper than another then something is definitely wrong. I accept the fact that larger companies who buy in bulk are going to get a better price than a single outlet.
I got quotes from CDN retailers here on CGN a few months ago for the above mentioned scope and was appalled at the vast difference in prices from the 3 or 4 people that I got prices from. Prices ranged from $1550 to $1695 for the same product. The highest price was from the company that I was told was an official importer of the NF scopes here in BC.
From a consumer's point of view, I personally am willing to go the extra mile to save myself whatever dollars I have left after the govt has already taken 25% of my earned monies in income tax etc.
There have been several threads on the forum already about this situation and I can only hope that the CDN govt starts giving small business breaks on the importation of products from other countries to even out the field.
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First off as JR already mentioned all Nightforce 50mm and 56mm objective NSX and Benchrest are made in Japan. Its marked on all these scopes
That aside comparing your Canon purchases is silly because a Camera lenses is NOT in the same catagory as scopes . End of story . The reason you don't get charged duty is Cameras and lenses are Catagory 5 . In Cat 5 if its US made or "Other" there is NO duty . So its not that you got lucky , its simply the tarrif catagory the camera falls in.
To give you an idea how silly these rules are. A single use disposable camera and film are Catagory 4 . Which means if its US made zero duty, if its "other" its a 8% duty
Depending how customs deems your scope its either 7% or 8% duty if its "other" ( this includes Japanese made, German etc )
As far as your comment regarding you will just get a import certificate and have a scope sent to you....all I can say is good luck . All the mail order places ( Riflescopes.com , Bearbasin.com, Midway etc ) will not send scopes to Canada . Lots of the gun stores that are close to the border are also wise to this and will refuse to sell to Canadians
This has been discussed ad nauseam in the optics forum. You need an export certificate from the state department. Most online vendors in the US know this and therefore will not deal with the hassle.
I have recieved import certificates in less than a week. It takes far longer on the US side assuming the vendor is even willing
Personally, my time is worth more than the extra $200 so I would sooner deal with a local dealer such as TSE.
If they are Japanese made, why not import them directly from Japan... Skip a step and save $$$.
Manufacturer in Japan (from what i can tell):
http://http://www.light-op.co.jp/index_e.htm
Manufacturer in Japan (from what i can tell):
http://http://www.light-op.co.jp/index_e.htm
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That's my point exactly. It would make sense for all US companies who manufacturer off shore to ship directly from the place of manufacturer to their markets given the delays encountered with getting export licenses from the State Department. That's why we are seeing more and more European made shooting products in Canada (and the Americans are losing market share as a result) simply because they have more efficient bureaucracies whose mandate it is to support their manufacturers. Sadly the reverse seems to be true in the US.
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I was not aware that Camera lenses were in a different category. I have not studied the different classes to know what is in which category. My mistake.
I am well aware of the proper procedures to bring the scope into Canada and I am in the process now of dealing with a company that IS willing to get the Export License from the State Department (no charge, unlike other US online dealers) and is more than willing to deal with a Canadian buyer/s, no "Luck" is needed but I thank you for the sentiment nonetheless.
Richard
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Nightforce is produced in Japan by Light Op for Lightforce. (Sames guy that make the Bushnell Elite 4200's.) It is a proprietory product so the factory isn't going to sell directly to anyone. It must go through the US buyer.
Same applies to much of Leupold too (much of their stuff and all of their lenses are outsourced). No flames required. Just do the research.
There are some enterprising Asians that will by pass the supply chain but many are concerned with this style of doing business too.
If there is someone with deep pockets that wants to create such a product line, there are several companies in Japan, Phillipines and China all too happy to help. You can spec whatever you want, all the way to the new super special March.
Problem isn't with the US and the cost of export but the size of this market place that negates anyone getting too excited about creating a very niche market product for very few users.
If for some magical reason, the developing world ie China, India, and much of southeast Asia get wealthy enough AND can own precision firearms, someone will certainly create products for them and we will benefit from this economy of scale.
Right now, much that is manf for direct sales is pretty poor optically. Priced right but why bother. Now if someone like Leeper or Fitco decided to go grab some top quality lenses and stuff into their $150 scopes to sell for $495, very exciting indeed.
Yes, they have the ability to make Nightforce quality stuff for 1/3 the price.
SWFA is one of a handful of companies that has taken this type of leap. Millett is trying as is Simmons. Why Weaver and Sightron don't step it up, who knows. Nikon is really kicking serious butt but the corporate wheels turn slowly especially when it comes to working beyond the nine dots.
Scope chassis are dirt cheap. Quality lenses can be expensive but not way out like some scopes cost. Put them together and you have some very exciting products. Pity, it isn't working out in the consumer world.
Some of the best optics are housed in boring and dull chassis. Exciting reticles and features are placed on crappy scopes. Go figure.
Jerry
All NightForce has to do is set-up a distribution arm in Japan where it can ship to its various markets directly. To ship a scope to the US and then onto a second market given the cost of transportation and the bureacratic wranglings of the State Department doesn't make any economic sense.
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Jess, you are absolutely correct and this is a superb opportunity for any entrepreneur.
Contact Lightforce and ensure a purchasing contract of 500 scopes in 1 year. That should get their interest. Better if you could say 1000. That's only 1 million US$ in sales. Not much in the business world....
I wonder if they sell that many a year in Canada through ALL the dealers put together? Wonder how many they sell a year in the US?
Jerry
Contact Lightforce and ensure a purchasing contract of 500 scopes in 1 year. That should get their interest. Better if you could say 1000. That's only 1 million US$ in sales. Not much in the business world....
I wonder if they sell that many a year in Canada through ALL the dealers put together? Wonder how many they sell a year in the US?
Jerry
I don't think you would even have to do that. NXS contracts with this Japanese manufacturer to make x number of scopes a year. This number includes the scopes it ships to its other markets via the US. All NXS would have do is ship its non US orders directly from Japan to its distributers in these markets. The economies of production would be passed through.
What's frustrating with a company like NXS is that it's Australian owned (at least I think it still is), shipping via the US is totally unneccessary.
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