We just got in this rifle and I thought they would be identical to the Polytech from our last shipment but noted the following differences. The Poly has no bayonet lug and the flash hider has six slots evenly spaced. The Norinco has a bayonet lug with five slots on the flash hider (solid portion on the bottom). The Poly and the Norico both appear to have the same black plastic stock and the same finish on the action and barrel. The Poly has the following stamped on the left side of receiver...M305 .308 BELL LIFESTYLE.CA BY-POLY INC MADE IN CHINA. The Norinco has stamped in the same position...M14 .308 CJA SFLD MICH MADE IN CHINA. Other than that the guns appear identical. Has anyone else noted any other differnces or operation. You can see a picture of the Norinco on our website. Phil.
New Norinco M-14 S vs Polytech M 305
- Thread starter P of PDent
- Start date
From attending the many clinic's of late I have noticed many difference besides cosmetic's between the different retailer's. This leads me to conclude that they my indeed be from different factories. The Norinco's tend to have sloppy Op-rod guides and also more generous headspace. The Poly's I have seen come with much tighter head space and Op-rod guides but the finish is easly worn off and the gas system isn't as nice as the Nornico's. Also the Poly's tend to have a lot more machining marks in the trigger assembly as compared to the the machining marks in side the receiver of the Norinco's. As with both set's of companies it still seems that there stock iron sight's quality control system is still out to lunch. Also there bayonet lugged flash hider seems to be of NM spec's on the inside but on the outside it just looks horrible. The crowns on the Poly's also have been much better than the Norinco ones I have seen as of late.
Can't wait to here from the rest of the CGNer's to here what they have to say.
Can't wait to here from the rest of the CGNer's to here what they have to say.
Any more experiences with Norcs vs. Polytechs? I am in a market for another one (just one 'cause my privates should be intact as I already have a couple of 2007 ones) and I am really undecided which is better, the Norc or the Polytech. I don't really care about the bayonet lug. I want one as tight as possible with as few things to be "improved" as possible. The loose op rod guide is my biggest pet peeve with the Norcs 2007.
well..... i guess i should wade in.
i did PM PofPDent with a brief note on my findings.
problem with a guy like me posting reviews is that some folks start to act like the sky is falling hehehe for those of you who are newer to the site, I specialize and work full time accurizing, custom building and accessorizing norinco, poly, springfield M14s/M305?m1a rifles and also do full usgi swap builds onto chinese receivers.
I have a preference towards the norinco, from a rifle building perspective
in my tests of dozens and dozens and dozens..... dare i say over 200 norinco rifles, with import dates post year 2000 to present. Two things have remained constant in my findings. The parkerizing is strong and tough and durable and hardness tests (with diamond and standard gunsmiths files) done on trigger parts IE hammers/sears and on receiver in general have been excellent. To explain this in layman's, when i do a trigger job, i test the surfaces first with a xtra fine file, it should not bite the metal....... then with the xxfine diamond file...... it should remove the parkerizing but just barely bite the metal. It takes effort with that xxfine diamond file to even remove a few thou from the hammer hook wal of a usgi hammer, an hour job if you will depending on the clearancing required to eliminate sear drag working with a usgi hammer. I have found that the norinco manufacture hammers are near as hard as the usgi but the poly's...... they appear to be much easier to succumb to the xxdiamond file.
is this bad.... is this a sign of incorrect hardening on the poly parts? I don't think so, it's just that the norinco's appea to be that much closer to usgi spec hardness.
also bear in mind, I have not performed rockwell testing on ANY parts to verify my "theories". I am just one man on the internet..... hehehe
I do not like the thin black parkerizing on the polytechs. It is not very durable at all
I do not like the plastic stocks on the polytechs.... more than 1/2 of the rifles brought to me at clinics and on the bench have full pressure contact between the front face of the stock ferrule and the gas band of the gas assembly..... very very bad a 15 thou optimal gap is the design specification. You WILL NOT see the accuracy potential of one of these rifles with full stock ferrule/band contact such as i am seeing on countless polytechs. if you are handy..... it's an hour or so job to remedy but most guys just don't know what to look for.
in my opinion , the chu wood norinco stock wins over the plastic poly stock simply because 9.9 times out of 10, the stocks were made to spec. you knew what you were getting..... a stinky , oily, sometimes moldy, hunk of mystery wood...... but they correctly fit the rifle. For average joe who doesn't know what to look for, the norc stock would be the least concern in the accuracy equation.
Poly tech bolts/reciever's- the good news is that they shrunk the headspace a few thou with an average of rifles showing 2 to 4 thou over the 7.62Nato Go gauge. SIMPLY put, it has been the experience of a great many chinese m14 type owners, that headspace like this is generally acceptable for BOTH 7.62 Nato surplus and .308 commercial ammo.
norinco rifles post year 2000 import seem to have an average ranging from 6 to 9 thou over the 7.62 nato go gauge, again even at this measurement , most folks seem to have no issues using both nato surplus and .308 commercial ammunition. It is the rifles that have headspace measurements exceeding 9/10 thou over the 7.62 nato Go gauge that great care and observation of brass needs to be taken when using commercial .308 and i personall do not recommend it. these rifles are best for 7.62 nato surplus ammo or reloads made to those specs with correctly seated primers and quality properly sized brass.
rear sights - i am not a fan of any model of the chinese rear sight...... in my estimates 4 out of 10 are functional and 1 out of 10 is correctly functional hehehe so that equates to ...... replace with a m1 garand rear sight or a sprinfield m1a or usgi rear sight set
flash hiders...... the norincos pretty much suck hehehe and my findings are pretty close to that of rear sights. 3 of 10 are functional in that the front sight base dove tail is machine true on center and at 90 degrees to the top spline that slides into the spline way on your barrel. most others are tilted and not centered to this top spline which is located inside the flash hider tube. Poly tech flash hiders appear for the most part to suffer some of the same issues but i do not have data on as many as i have datta for on norincos.
Oprod guides..... same issue as in all chinese rifles.... with one exception. the poly barrels sem to have a hair more diameter for a better fit with the oprod guide, but the pin relief in still too wide like the norincos and the oprod guide pins are very brittle. Most polys should in theory develop the loose oprod guide after a few hundred rounds.
remember this, in battle conditions..... the general purpose M14 rifle was allowed to have play in the oprod guide of several degrees rotation either way. In a match rifle..... and for civillians..... there is no benefit to leaving it loose. Having the oprod guide staked has several effects on the rifle. One, it promotes accuracy by forcing the parts to follow the same path and movement each shot. Also, it reduces overall wear and tear on the rifles parts, ie: oprod tab and bearing surfaces of both oprod and receiver, oprod tube, spring guide and spring and gas piston as the oprod strikes it exactly the same every time.
gas assemblies....... they work and on some rifles of noinco vintage i have seen 1 out of 10 or so that are super close to usgi spec for cylinder wall diameter
i have now seen 5 or 6 poly's that have centering issues and are not compatable for use with a gas lock sight. too hard to explain this one. but if you have installed a gas lock sight, and your barrel indexing is good, and your gas assembly seems vertically true to the receiver...... and for some damn reason you just can't get that gas lock sight to index straight up and down and when you do you have geat difficulty geting the gas plug in......... you have one of these out of spec gas cylinders..... perfectly useable with a standard gas lock but a NO GO for a gas lock front sight.
hmmmmmm have i left anything out?
let me say this to all who may read more into what i've typed than they need to.
I prefer the norincos but for different reasons than the layman, average joe shooter who just wants his rifle to go bang reliably, and hit the same spot or very close to it every time So for the the most part, for the money AND the growing support ie accessories and replacement parts that is here in Canada, you really can not go wrong buying either one, norinco or polytech...... as long as you hang around these parts and access all the free info and support we have in this commnity.
now remember..... i'm just one guy on the internet , these rifles are my full time job now, so my comments come from my general experience over the past 10 years with chinese rifles, it's hard to judge the new polytechs as i've seen hundreds more of the norincos but for the past 5 years i have been keeping detailed notes
if a safety issue where to arise and become a commonality in ANY of these rifles..... you WILL hear it from me without hesitation.
i'll close with a well known quote from forum Moderator and CGN M14 Guru Hungry...... buy two or your #### will fall off
i did PM PofPDent with a brief note on my findings.
problem with a guy like me posting reviews is that some folks start to act like the sky is falling hehehe for those of you who are newer to the site, I specialize and work full time accurizing, custom building and accessorizing norinco, poly, springfield M14s/M305?m1a rifles and also do full usgi swap builds onto chinese receivers.
I have a preference towards the norinco, from a rifle building perspective
in my tests of dozens and dozens and dozens..... dare i say over 200 norinco rifles, with import dates post year 2000 to present. Two things have remained constant in my findings. The parkerizing is strong and tough and durable and hardness tests (with diamond and standard gunsmiths files) done on trigger parts IE hammers/sears and on receiver in general have been excellent. To explain this in layman's, when i do a trigger job, i test the surfaces first with a xtra fine file, it should not bite the metal....... then with the xxfine diamond file...... it should remove the parkerizing but just barely bite the metal. It takes effort with that xxfine diamond file to even remove a few thou from the hammer hook wal of a usgi hammer, an hour job if you will depending on the clearancing required to eliminate sear drag working with a usgi hammer. I have found that the norinco manufacture hammers are near as hard as the usgi but the poly's...... they appear to be much easier to succumb to the xxdiamond file.
is this bad.... is this a sign of incorrect hardening on the poly parts? I don't think so, it's just that the norinco's appea to be that much closer to usgi spec hardness.
also bear in mind, I have not performed rockwell testing on ANY parts to verify my "theories". I am just one man on the internet..... hehehe
I do not like the thin black parkerizing on the polytechs. It is not very durable at all
I do not like the plastic stocks on the polytechs.... more than 1/2 of the rifles brought to me at clinics and on the bench have full pressure contact between the front face of the stock ferrule and the gas band of the gas assembly..... very very bad a 15 thou optimal gap is the design specification. You WILL NOT see the accuracy potential of one of these rifles with full stock ferrule/band contact such as i am seeing on countless polytechs. if you are handy..... it's an hour or so job to remedy but most guys just don't know what to look for.
in my opinion , the chu wood norinco stock wins over the plastic poly stock simply because 9.9 times out of 10, the stocks were made to spec. you knew what you were getting..... a stinky , oily, sometimes moldy, hunk of mystery wood...... but they correctly fit the rifle. For average joe who doesn't know what to look for, the norc stock would be the least concern in the accuracy equation.
Poly tech bolts/reciever's- the good news is that they shrunk the headspace a few thou with an average of rifles showing 2 to 4 thou over the 7.62Nato Go gauge. SIMPLY put, it has been the experience of a great many chinese m14 type owners, that headspace like this is generally acceptable for BOTH 7.62 Nato surplus and .308 commercial ammo.
norinco rifles post year 2000 import seem to have an average ranging from 6 to 9 thou over the 7.62 nato go gauge, again even at this measurement , most folks seem to have no issues using both nato surplus and .308 commercial ammunition. It is the rifles that have headspace measurements exceeding 9/10 thou over the 7.62 nato Go gauge that great care and observation of brass needs to be taken when using commercial .308 and i personall do not recommend it. these rifles are best for 7.62 nato surplus ammo or reloads made to those specs with correctly seated primers and quality properly sized brass.
rear sights - i am not a fan of any model of the chinese rear sight...... in my estimates 4 out of 10 are functional and 1 out of 10 is correctly functional hehehe so that equates to ...... replace with a m1 garand rear sight or a sprinfield m1a or usgi rear sight set
flash hiders...... the norincos pretty much suck hehehe and my findings are pretty close to that of rear sights. 3 of 10 are functional in that the front sight base dove tail is machine true on center and at 90 degrees to the top spline that slides into the spline way on your barrel. most others are tilted and not centered to this top spline which is located inside the flash hider tube. Poly tech flash hiders appear for the most part to suffer some of the same issues but i do not have data on as many as i have datta for on norincos.
Oprod guides..... same issue as in all chinese rifles.... with one exception. the poly barrels sem to have a hair more diameter for a better fit with the oprod guide, but the pin relief in still too wide like the norincos and the oprod guide pins are very brittle. Most polys should in theory develop the loose oprod guide after a few hundred rounds.
remember this, in battle conditions..... the general purpose M14 rifle was allowed to have play in the oprod guide of several degrees rotation either way. In a match rifle..... and for civillians..... there is no benefit to leaving it loose. Having the oprod guide staked has several effects on the rifle. One, it promotes accuracy by forcing the parts to follow the same path and movement each shot. Also, it reduces overall wear and tear on the rifles parts, ie: oprod tab and bearing surfaces of both oprod and receiver, oprod tube, spring guide and spring and gas piston as the oprod strikes it exactly the same every time.
gas assemblies....... they work and on some rifles of noinco vintage i have seen 1 out of 10 or so that are super close to usgi spec for cylinder wall diameter
i have now seen 5 or 6 poly's that have centering issues and are not compatable for use with a gas lock sight. too hard to explain this one. but if you have installed a gas lock sight, and your barrel indexing is good, and your gas assembly seems vertically true to the receiver...... and for some damn reason you just can't get that gas lock sight to index straight up and down and when you do you have geat difficulty geting the gas plug in......... you have one of these out of spec gas cylinders..... perfectly useable with a standard gas lock but a NO GO for a gas lock front sight.
hmmmmmm have i left anything out?
let me say this to all who may read more into what i've typed than they need to.
I prefer the norincos but for different reasons than the layman, average joe shooter who just wants his rifle to go bang reliably, and hit the same spot or very close to it every time
So for the the most part, for the money AND the growing support ie accessories and replacement parts that is here in Canada, you really can not go wrong buying either one, norinco or polytech...... as long as you hang around these parts and access all the free info and support we have in this commnity.now remember..... i'm just one guy on the internet , these rifles are my full time job now, so my comments come from my general experience over the past 10 years with chinese rifles, it's hard to judge the new polytechs as i've seen hundreds more of the norincos but for the past 5 years i have been keeping detailed notes
if a safety issue where to arise and become a commonality in ANY of these rifles..... you WILL hear it from me without hesitation.
i'll close with a well known quote from forum Moderator and CGN M14 Guru Hungry...... buy two or your #### will fall off
Hey, M14Doctor.....
Thanks for sharing all your observations. I'm just another dude on the internet except this M14 tweaking is not my livelihood. I've just done so many of them and screwed up on dozens of M14's and M1A's that I have owned. That's the ONLY reason you dudes keep calling me "guru"... I really am not a guru, but merely a dispenser of knowledge (some of it learned by screwing up) and the rest of it learned from years of competing with this platform.
Barney
Thanks for sharing all your observations. I'm just another dude on the internet except this M14 tweaking is not my livelihood. I've just done so many of them and screwed up on dozens of M14's and M1A's that I have owned. That's the ONLY reason you dudes keep calling me "guru"... I really am not a guru, but merely a dispenser of knowledge (some of it learned by screwing up) and the rest of it learned from years of competing with this platform.
Barney
great post M14Doctor.
So do you typicaly work on said M14's after purchase or do you also sell post op M14's?
I will be looking more serious this summer.
So do you typicaly work on said M14's after purchase or do you also sell post op M14's?
I will be looking more serious this summer.
i am not a firearms dealer, any rifles i may list for sale are personal rifles, surplus to my needs, or listed for friends. I may in time add custom rifle sales to my business but that is yet more liscencing, liability insurance, security, and the parts i would need to build rifles i'd want to put my name on as a business.... just aren't quite widely availlable enough yet, at competetive dealer rates. So for now, I will be accurizing and customizing clients rifles and working on my line of stocks.
Just received mine. I have to admit, I'm not impressed with the stock. I guess I'll have to start shopping. This project wasn't suppose to start right away, damnit!
I found a couple of odd things on mine (so far). Anybody else notice the lack of cut-outs in the flash suppressor; and the lack of specific branding on the receiver? To answer your question, yes, I hid the trailing end of the serial number.
I found a couple of odd things on mine (so far). Anybody else notice the lack of cut-outs in the flash suppressor; and the lack of specific branding on the receiver? To answer your question, yes, I hid the trailing end of the serial number.
Thanks for sharing all your observations. I'm just another dude on the internet except this M14 tweaking is not my livelihood. I've just done so many of them and screwed up on dozens of M14's and M1A's that I have owned. That's the ONLY reason you dudes keep calling me "guru"... I really am not a guru, but merely a dispenser of knowledge (some of it learned by screwing up) and the rest of it learned from years of competing with this platform.
just for that response your a guru. i would have loved to have met you in the reg's.
just for that response your a guru. i would have loved to have met you in the reg's.
Just back from a quick range test with my new PolyTech M305. With Isreali surplus ball the Poly shot several sub 1" groups @ 100yds with just open sights. My best with the older Norinco, scoped, bedded, trigger etc. is just a hair over 2". Fit and finnish on the PolyTech look much better and the rifle seems much tighter than the Norinco evrer was.
