New Norinco M-14 S vs Polytech M 305

I am not an m14 expert. I have a 2009 polytech with a boyds stock and frontiers "deluxe" scope mount. Took it out last weekend for the first time with glass on it and shot back to back 5 shot groups @ 100m measuring 1.5" and 1.75" (minus one flyer:redface: I flinched a little) I'll post the picture here if you want, frankly I was pleasantly surprised.
 
Glockster said:
Just back from a quick range test with my new PolyTech M305. With Isreali surplus ball the Poly shot several sub 1" groups @ 100yds with just open sights. My best with the older Norinco, scoped, bedded, trigger etc. is just a hair over 2". Fit and finnish on the PolyTech look much better and the rifle seems much tighter than the Norinco evrer was.
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That's friggin' awesome, I get 3" with150gr cheapy Winchester.
 
Hungry said:
Hey, M14Doctor.....

Thanks for sharing all your observations. I'm just another dude on the internet except this M14 tweaking is not my livelihood. I've just done so many of them and screwed up on dozens of M14's and M1A's that I have owned. That's the ONLY reason you dudes keep calling me "guru"... I really am not a guru, but merely a dispenser of knowledge (some of it learned by screwing up) and the rest of it learned from years of competing with this platform.

:cheers:
Barney
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Any guy who can talk his wife into letting him (and a housefull of gunnutz) parkerize m14 parts on the kitchen stove is for sure 'GURU' like in my books.:cool:
 
M14Doctor said:
n black parkerizing on the polytechs. It is not very durable at all
I do not like the plastic stocks on the polytechs.... more than 1/2 of the rifles brought to me at clinics and on the bench have full pressure contact between the front face of the stock ferrule and the gas band of the gas assembly..... very very bad a 15 thou optimal gap is the design specification. You WILL NOT see the accuracy potential of one of these rifles with full stock ferrule/band contact such as i am seeing on countless polytechs. if you are handy..... it's an hour or so job to remedy but most guys just don't know what to look for.
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Well, I got around to "fixing" my take-off M305 polytech black plastic stock this long weekend. I don't use it, it came off a 2009 Poly I bought for the barrelled action, but just for the hell of it, I decided to see if I could make it useable as a backup or spare.

It was a BUGGER getting the original front ferrule off the stock. Lots of persuading with some thin screwdrivers finally did the trick.

I took my measurements off a USGI glass stock from the back of the receiver leg recesses to the tip of the ferrule. Wow, the Poly stock was too long by a full 1/16"! It took a lot more filing that I had thought it would to get the base of the ferrule inletting filed back to where it ought to be, this left the protruding part that goes into the ferrule too long. I was tired of filing, so 5 seconds on the belt sander took care of that.

I read in one thread or another that M14Doctor likes to use a dremel to re-cut the recesses for the ferrule indentations. I had the mill already all set up for another similar dob though, so I made short work of that with a woodruff cutter.

Dressed it all up with a fine file and bedded the ferrule back on with JB Weld. Nice and tight and in-spec now with optimal 15-20 thou clearance to the gas system band as tested in two properly shimmed actions (a Norc and a Poly).

Lastly, there was not enough clearance at the back of the trigger guard when the gun was assembled, this made it a bugger to pop open the trigger guard as you had to bend the plastic at the back of the inletting to get it in and out. I cut a small half-moon relief at the back of the inletting in the stock with a 3/8" end mill. Works like a champ now.

The stock still looks god-awful in my mind. It reminds me of the stocks that used to come on Norinco Ithaca 37 clones. The total lack of inletting or thought for the trigger guard wings on either side of the mag release just looks sloppy to me. It also feels cheap (I think it's some kind of zytel ripoff material?) compared to a USGI glass stock. That being said, with the steel liner and plastic composition, this stock would probably outlast all the USGI glass stocks I've ever owned and still be working well.

So back in the corner it goes as a spare stock, but at least now it's serviceable - which is a huge improvement over before.
 
and that is why this cgn community is such a great place for the M14 type owner...... every bug and kink these rifles have is being brought to attention and dealt with one issue at a time...... CGN, canada's complete "chinese" m14 troubleshooting guide LOL

this plastic stock modification should be added to the sticky section where fiberglass stock mods are discussed ;)
if needed i have a few of these to mod for clients with shorty work in...... they won't know it's been done unless they read it here ;) it won't be on thier bill .... but i can set up the camera and do a photo walk thru........ I'll do it next week after the move is done ;)
 
I did take a couple snaps for part of the "fix" though I only thought of it AFTER I had bedded the ferrule back on, so for complete pics you'll have to wait for M14Doctor to post some.

FWIW, here's a couple snaps illustrating the mods we both seem to be recommending:

DSCN1410.jpg

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DSCN1413.jpg


Edit: For those looking to duplicate this, here are some tips. Use a USGI stock to measure where you need to file to. If you don;t have one, borrow a buddy's. Mark the spot using a sharp scribe on the stock, then use a set of steel calipers to scrape a line all the way around the stock at the same level as your initial scribe mark. This is the reference line you need to file the ferrule shoulder to.

Start using a coarse bastard file, it eats the zytel up. Once you get it close, switch to a fine cross-cut or fine mill file to take off the last few thou to give a smoother finish. Use the fine file to break the edge as well - don't leave it sharp. You could even use fine sandpaper at this point, but I didn't bother. You next need to remove some material from the front of the stock so the ferule will set all the way. This is less critical since you will likely be bedding the ferrule back on, just take enough so the ferrule clears the lip and seats fully.

Finally, BEFORE installing the ferule back on, take a flat file and remove the ridges on either side of the channel that the gas system sits into. You do not want your cheap plastic stock putting transverse pressure on your gas cylinder. File these ridges flush to the inlet channel. Use a round file to do the same thing along the bottom of the channel. Even with this mod, your ferrule will probably lightly contact your gas system because it's a tight fit and these stocks have some flex to them, but at least it will be minimized.

If you don't have a mill, a dremel tool with a small diameter cutting disk can be used in lieu of a woodruff cutter to re-cut the recesses that the ferrule detents snap into. This will not be a tight fit since the old detent holes will ensure there is lots of forward/backward slop. This is why you will want to bed the ferrule. I like JB Weld, but 2 part epoxy, devcon, or similar will work equally well. Put it on so the excess squeezes out and wipe it off with a wet rag before it cures. I set the stock upright with a chunk of 2x4 on top of the ferrule to keep it in place until the epoxy sets.

Pretty easy, really. Just takes a little time.
 
Riflechair said:
Thats not right. Betcha the welds on that flash arrestor have been broken. Someone has taken your flash arrestor and replaced with a pre 2005 model. I'd be looking into this if I were you.
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Update: The weld certainly wasn't broken. It took me everything not to damage the goddamn thing when removing it. Alas, the weld wouldn't break and I ended up cracking the flash hider. Now I need a new one. I'm contemplating an SEI, but if I can find a cheap Chineeh one, I'll use that for the time being.
 
M14Doctor said:
where did that one come from......
haven't seen a solid flash hider on a new rifle in a long time
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When I purchased my 2009 Polytech from Al Simmons, I noticed that their black plastic stock Poly's did not have the cut-outs on the flash supressors, while the ugly (and more expensive) camo ones did. That's the reason I bought the camo variation. I did not take notice of the branding.
 
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