New Norinco M305

Odd Shot

Odd Shot

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Hey everyone.

I love how this site is a wealth of info on the M14/M1A/M305, unfortunately, so much so that it's easy to get lost in all of it, not to mention the time it takes to read through all of it (just spent the last couple hours reading threads).

So I just have a few quick questions about my brand new M305 that I just picked up from a site dealer.
Would be grateful for any insights:

1. is it normal for the finish on these guns to be very rough? There are a LOT of machining marks everywhere and generally poor fit and finish

2. is it common for the the barrel and the gas cylinder/cylinder plug (and the gas cylinder lock) to NOT be in line with the vertical center line (off by 5 to 10 degrees by eye)? Is this rifle safe to fire with this much mis-alignment?

3. the front blade sight is enormously tall, and slightly bent over to the side. it's mount on the flash suppressor is also not in line with the vertical center line

4. the magazine fits very tightly in the magazine well and takes some effort to remove once engaged. Again, is this normal? It is so tight in fact, that the magazine cannot be removed if the bolt is in battery

5. there is some slop in the bolt while it is in battery (it rattles slightly...we're talking less than a millimetre of movement). Is this normal or does this represent a defect/safety hazard?

Just wondering if this is normal and to be expected of a $450 Chinese rifle, or if I have a lemon that I have to send back to the seller.

Thanks for any and all input.

BTW I am not new to shooting or to military guns. I have handled and operated an M16 (C7), FN FAL, SAFN M-49, an M1 Garand, and a Browning BAR (long track) hunting rifle (silky smooth action on that Browning).

The fit and finish on this Norinco is by far the worst I have ever seen or handled.

Gotta say, I'm regretting this purchase right now. :(
 
I be sayin', see if you can show it to someone, or post good pics, plz :)

Rough finish, bit of rattle in the bolt, sounds like mine; don't know, can't tell from here regards your gas assembly alignment... my rifle isn't perfect either

Mine has a couple of similar issues like a hunchbacked flash eliminator, but it shoots pretty well, actually. It's on the list to be replaced, those two parts, but I'm still making 2-3" groups at 100.

There'll be other opinions up soon.
 
1. is it normal for the finish on these guns to be very rough? There are a LOT of machining marks everywhere and generally poor fit and finish
Yes its cheaper that way


2. is it common for the the barrel and the gas cylinder/cylinder plug (and the gas cylinder lock) to NOT be in line with the vertical center line (off by 5 to 10 degrees by eye)? Is this rifle safe to fire with this much mis-alignment?

Sometimes they screwed up on the barrel so to make it work with out wasteing parts they just moved it to the side thats why some parts have issuses fitting might not be missaligned might just be miss machined barrel ie off center use it anyways drill hole in that spot works fine.

3. the front blade sight is enormously tall, and slightly bent over to the side. it's mount on the flash suppressor is also not in line with the vertical center line

Just adjust rear sight I found mine shot to the left a few clicks and it was good

4. the magazine fits very tightly in the magazine well and takes some effort to remove once engaged. Again, is this normal? It is so tight in fact, that the magazine cannot be removed if the bolt is in battery

Yes they will wear in try useing a poylmer magazine allot harder to get in and out untill they wear in.

5. there is some slop in the bolt while it is in battery (it rattles slightly...we're talking less than a millimetre of movement). Is this normal or does this represent a defect/safety hazard?

They tend to all be sloppy use UGI parts if you want to improve it but then you start spending allot more for a rifle


Is it even close to a springfield firearm no does it work yes.

I put a new round guide rod in it and it shoots just fine the Gas system was turned off when I first fired it and it takes allot of work to clean all the oil out because there is allot of it. Also use grease not oil on the bolt its made for it and it works allot better. I couldn't find any white liteum grease that wasn't a spray on type (I hate that for rifles) so I used all weather Dirt bike grease (chain) works great
 
What is your location ? Someone with a bit of M14 know how might be living next door and could help you out !
If you are in Vancouver i would be glad to walk you through the rifle And help tune er up !!!
 
1. yes

2. & 3. Check the op rod guide and see if it moves from side to side .If so this is an easy fix .Remove the rollpin and slide the op rod guide forward .Take a center punch and put alot of dimples in the barrel then put on some permanent style loctite .Replace the op rod guide (you may have to tap it back on with a soft faced hammer ) . Replace the roll pin .
Here is a pic of when I did one of mine. This tightens up the op rod guide and keeps its centered
Picture017.jpg


By the sound of it at you have a short barrel version and the front sight needs to be taller due to this . If the front sight is leaning to the right when you look down the barrel from the rear of the rifle it is a good indication the barrel needs to be indexed (tightened onto the receiver some more). If you are planning on putting on a scope dont worry about it.

4. Are you using a 20/5 rd mag as the 5 rd mags are a pain to remove .

5. A little bit of forward bolt movement when in battery is normal in these so dont worry about it.

Overall these are a good rifle and a great deal for the money , some may need some tweaking but that is half the fun of it for me.
Remember these are a Chinese copy of a battle rifle .
Get to one of Hungrys or if you are out west 45 ACP rifle clinics , best $35 you will ever spend !!!
Easiest and cheap improvement for these is getting a better op rod guide spring , tightening the op rod guide as I described and shimming the gas system if the gas locking ring doesn't get nice and tight at the 6:00 position. Sometimes just flipping the gas locking ring over will accomplish this . You will have to remove the flashider to do this though.
If you are planning on using just iron sights get a set of Garand rear sights for it as alot of the chinese ones are junk.
 
Put it for sale on the EE, and you will be relieved of your purchase very quickly. Lots of guys here know the value of these diamonds in the rough, and they are just that.
 
Thanks for the input guys. I knew I was getting a "budget" rifle, was just taken aback at the poor fit and finish and just wanted to make sure if this was normal/saafe or not. Cosmetic finishing issues aside, the barrel-gas cylinder & lock-front sight-front "ferrule" alignment was the most shocking and had me the most concerned regarding safe operation.

14482_10151409723540499_1566558603_n.jpg


73235_10151409723625499_215543152_n.jpg


532433_10151409723560499_1563516454_n.jpg


Can you guys see these images?
 
chalkriver said:
4. Are you using a 20/5 rd mag as the 5 rd mags are a pain to remove .

Overall these are a good rifle and a great deal for the money , some may need some tweaking but that is half the fun of it for me.
Remember these are a Chinese copy of a battle rifle .
Get to one of Hungrys or if you are out west 45 ACP rifle clinics , best $35 you will ever spend !!!
Easiest and cheap improvement for these is getting a better op rod guide spring , tightening the op rod guide as I described and shimming the gas system if the gas locking ring doesn't get nice and tight at the 6:00 position. Sometimes just flipping the gas locking ring over will accomplish this . You will have to remove the flashider to do this though.
If you are planning on using just iron sights get a set of Garand rear sights for it as alot of the chinese ones are junk.
Click to expand...

it's the 20/5 rd mag. Figured it might just have to break in. Just wanted to be sure.

The cost was very appealing, but the stickler for detail and craftsmanship in me isn't so sure about keeping this item. I expected slight cosmetic blemishes but not mis-alignments or roughness to this degree (the front sight piece isn't even square).

If I'd known beforehand, I probably wouldn't have purchased it, as I just don't have the skill set, work space or time to tinker with a rifle in the home (cleaning alone is enough of a production as the only place to do it is on the coffee table in the living room). I envy you guys who do.

Lesson learned: be careful with sight unseen purchases.
 
Odd Shot said:
Thanks for the input guys. I knew I was getting a "budget" rifle, was just taken aback at the poor fit and finish and just wanted to make sure if this was normal/saafe or not. Cosmetic finishing issues aside, the barrel-gas cylinder & lock-front sight-front "ferrule" alignment was the most shocking and had me the most concerned regarding safe operation.

14482_10151409723540499_1566558603_n.jpg


73235_10151409723625499_215543152_n.jpg


532433_10151409723560499_1563516454_n.jpg


Can you guys see these images?
Click to expand...

Images show up perfectly... looks like you have an indexing problem - the angle of all the bits on the barrel indicates that was under tightened (these things are right hand threaded, right?) at the factory.

This means your headspace may be a little long, and the angle may affect the longevity of other components. I know someone more knowledgeable about the m14 will step in and correct me, but this is what it looks like from those photos...


Should you shoot it... Well, I would... but I would first try and exchange it for a better indexed firearm...

Matt
 
Don't listen to the neigh sayers.

The m305 is an excellent platform for two things. One, a cheap but power full fun gun
Two, a build platform.

My basic $400 rifle plus $1200 in accessories has put my gun on par with the $2300 rifles made by the states

People need to know what they are buying and what they are buying it for.
 
yomomma said:
Don't listen to the neigh sayers.

The m305 is an excellent platform for two things. One, a cheap but power full fun gun
Two, a build platform.

My basic $400 rifle plus $1200 in accessories has put my gun on par with the $2300 rifles made by the states

People need to know what they are buying and what they are buying it for.
Click to expand...

x2 - I love both of mine and shoot 1.5" - 2" consistently. My shorty has been through a clinic but no upgraded spring guide, and my long-barrel will be getting clinic treatment as soon as I'm on holidays and has the upgraded ORSG :D However, I didn't have to re-index my barrel on either of them, so for that and the front sight being crooked, I'd ask to get an exchange.
 
Longshot84 said:
x2 - I love both of mine and shoot 1.5" - 2" consistently. My shorty has been through a clinic but no upgraded spring guide, and my long-barrel will be getting clinic treatment as soon as I'm on holidays and has the upgraded ORSG :D However, I didn't have to re-index my barrel on either of them, so for that and the front sight being crooked, I'd ask to get an exchange.
Click to expand...

x3 ..... great rifle for the money, try and get to a clinic and these issues can be easily fixed....I have 3 of these rifles now as you can dress them up like barbie dolls in different stocks and acc ...lol
 
From the photos I'd say definitely send it back for an exchange. My M305 and 2 of my buddy's were excellent. The tooling marks and roughness that I see on the front-sight are not present on any of the Norcs in my (admittedly limited) experience. Same for the indexing issue and the overly-tight fitting mag.

I was very impressed with the quality of my rifle and had assumed that Chinese quality control had substantially improved over the years. I have read that the early (1990's) rifles had a range of issues. A visual comparison of my Norc with a Springfield M14 a few weeks ago had the Norc at par. A more detailed examination with a micrometer might have turned up differences but at a cursory level, they were comparable (to my unrefined eye).

It doesn't seem to me that your rifle is representative of the general quality of these guns.
 
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