New optic needed...opinions wanted.

Clobbersauras

Clobbersauras

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First off, mods please don't move this to optics:redface:, we all know we'll get more informed responses here.

I'm looking for a new optic and mount for my rifle. (12.5 inch barrel chambered in 5.56). I had an Aimpoint micro mounted to it and loved the optic, but found it's 4moa dot to be too large for my liking. It was fine for anything up to 75 yards but after that I found that accuracy suffered. It's now found a home on my TP9:D. I'm thinking I need something with a little magnification, but I still want to use it for 25 yards and under, so I'll need 1X capability as well.


I'd like to know your opinions on the best optic suited to my needs. Maybe I don't need magnification and just need to train more?:redface: Your thoughts are appreciated. I'm also interested in what optic you use on your black rifle and why. Pics of your gear appreciated.;)
 
I use a Falcon Menace 1.5-5 scope on my XCR. Nice wide field of view for closeup work and enough magnification to make hitting the gong at 200m easy. I've looked at Acog's and Elcan Spectre Dr's. Nice stuff, but my Falcon cost 15% of the price of one of the high end optics and works just fine.
 
Aimpoint micro is 3moa! Sounds like you want a 1x4 red dot type CQB scope. IOR has a nice one, or theres Schmidt and Bender short dot. Negatives are added weight. I would stay with the Micro on a shorty.
 
I would say for anything under 100m for sure(and well past that for skilled users), an RDS is perfect. The magnification is not better accuracy, especially when shooting at human-sized targets. Magnification is used for target identification/discrimination and intelligence gathering.

But, if you want to go that route, have you tried the Micro with an Aimpoint magnifier?

Or a Nightforce 1-4?

Depending on how much you want to spend, there are a lot of good options.

I have an SBR with a Micro, my KAC SR-15 has a NF 1-4.
 
USP said:
Aimpoint micro is 3moa!
Click to expand...
wicked_police said:
Closer to 3.5.
Click to expand...

H-1 is 4 MOA. I know, I know, my d!ck will fall off for not having a T1 right?

wicked_police said:
And a good user can keep shots 1-2 MOA no problem with a Micro. :)
Click to expand...
I must not be a good user then. With 4MOA dot it's impossible to get an aiming reference to get anywhere near 1MOA. At 75 yards the best I can do it around 2.5inches with dirty bird ammo and a rough bench rest. I'd like something with a 1 MOA dot and some magnification, but I want it in a small package. Is there such a beast?

And where are all the inspiring pics....???:D
 
Clobbersauras said:
H-1 is 4 MOA. I know, I know my d!ck will fall off for not having a T1 right?
Click to expand...


No and No(I'd rather not think of what it would take for your #### to fall off...).

H-1 and T-1 use the same internals except for the nv settings.
And they're made on the same 'assembly line'. The main difference is the testing they go through after for the different ratings for waterproof, etc.

For the huge majority of users, the T-1 bought for purposes other than a need for the NV capability.
The H-1 fits the need perfectly.

I have one T-1(sold the other one). When I get more Micros, they'll be H-1's.
I don't need nv for my personal guns. :)
 
wicked_police said:
No and No(I'd rather not think of what it would take for your #### to fall off...).

H-1 and T-1 use the same internals except for the nv settings.
And they're made on the same 'assembly line'. The main difference is the testing they go through after for the different ratings for waterproof, etc.

For the huge majority of users, the T-1 bought for purposes other than a need for the NV capability.
The H-1 fits the need perfectly.

I have one T-1(sold the other one). When I get more Micros, they'll be H-1's.
I don't need nv for my personal guns. :)
Click to expand...

Taken from the Aimpoint web site..though I'm just splitting hairs now...

AIMPOINT® MICRO H-1




Micro H-1 - Designed with the hunter in mind, these sights are the lightest red dot sights tough enough to bear the Aimpoint name. Small enough to be used anywhere that you could put iron sights, these sights can be used on any type of firearm or archery equipment. A lightweight rifle with an Micro H-1 mounted on it remains a lightweight rifle! A hunting revolver with an Micro H-1 installed remains as easy to carry as with iron sights and is much quicker to aim. On a bow, the parallax-free Micro H-1 eliminates the need for a peep, allowing you to shoot accurately in lower light.

Unique features for Micro H-1

* Its weight – 84 g without mount and 105 g with mount ideal for rifles, shotguns, handguns or archery equipment
* Integral Weaver-style base allows easy attachment
* ACET technology allows 50,000 hours of operation on one battery
* Available in 4 MOA (minutes of angle)
* Submersible to 15 feet (5 meters)
* 1X (non-magnifying) parallax free optic
* Patent pending mount is keyed to the sight body to absorb recoil
* Precision adjustment for windage and elevation
* Top of protective caps fits into holes on adjustment screws – no other tool required
* 13 settings for use in daylight and lowlight conditions
* Color Black



Standard features for all Aimpoint® sights

* Unlimited field of view
* Parallax-free and unlimited eye relief
* Unaffected by extreme weather conditions
* Rugged, durable construction
* No hazardous materials
* No laser emission that could be harmful to your eyes
* Mechanical switch for speed and reliability
* Increased aiming confide
 
wicked_police said:
The magnification is not better accuracy, especially when shooting at human-sized targets. Magnification is used for target identification/discrimination and intelligence gathering.
Click to expand...

I agree that magnification is not necessarily better accuracy. But in my experience, magnification certainly helps in the accuracy department when shooting at longer ranges. So from your statement above, would one usually use magnification to identify the target and then power down to engage?
 
wicked_police said:
I would say for anything under 100m for sure(and well past that for skilled users), an RDS is perfect. The magnification is not better accuracy, especially when shooting at human-sized targets. Magnification is used for target identification/discrimination and intelligence gathering.

But, if you want to go that route, have you tried the Micro with an Aimpoint magnifier?

Or a Nightforce 1-4?

Depending on how much you want to spend, there are a lot of good options.

I have an SBR with a Micro, my KAC SR-15 has a NF 1-4.
Click to expand...



I never got the aimpoint + magnifier combo. Get a 1-4x scope if you need the versatility. Stick to a plain micro if you don't need the magnification (and added bulk).
 
Clobbersauras said:
So from your statement above, would one usually use magnification to identify the target and then power down to engage?
Click to expand...


Again, no.

And not sure why this would need to be typed out....
But, if you're using the optic to identify your target, and find that it is a badger/tango that falls under the ROE, then you would engage. Why take the time to flip down or remove the optic just to use the RDS.

But if you're door-kicking, then hopefully you wouldn't need any magnification to discriminate between a badger and a dove.
 
While aimpoint lists it at 4moa, it's been measured as closer to 3. Not by me- real pros!

If you want 1-4x, I've tried a bunch and settled on a Trijicon TR24G in an ADM recon mount.
 
On the T1 the dot size decreases with the setting. On mine at least I would say mids 2s to mids 3s maybe 4 on setting 12.
 
firemachine69 said:
I never got the aimpoint + magnifier combo. Get a 1-4x scope if you need the versatility. Stick to a plain micro if you don't need the magnification (and added bulk).
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Gents if I may...........

With all due respect, might I strongly suggest you do no knock it until you try it.

I say this as I was too was skeptical, and thought it a heavy option, until I tried the Micro in a Larue tall mount (all of mine are H-1's) and an Aimpoint 3x magnifier in a larue swing.

What you have is an incredible flexible rig, with 1-3 changes right now. Further, if slick and fast is called for, you can remove the magifier and leave it in the kit box with a minimum of hassel. If you not sure what the paramters of your shooting will be, having the magnifier handy off to the side is a real bounus.

My experience is that the H-1 dot is smaller than 4 moa and larger than 3, so lets call it 3.5.

Further, I have found that to my perception, add magnification to the micro, make the dot become clearer and smaller.

Again these are just my perceptions, but I beleive I have enought hands on experience with a variety of different optics to be confident in the validity of my comments.

regards and all the best

AbH

bushy-LMT-FDE-s-01.jpg


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I like the reticle in the DMS more than the Eotech style for the precision work.

I just put a Millet DMS-1 (from P&D) on my 16" AR. I've only used it out to 100 yards but at that distance its a very acceptable sight picture.

The 1x of the DMS is rather close to 1x

I was going to get a Burris FF 30 3-9x because my range is out to 200 yards but to be honest I think the 4x of the Millet is sufficient. (Obviously the minimum 3x on the Burris would be more of a limitation than having 9x for the long stuff.)


So definitely +1 for the DMS

LMTwithDMS-1.jpg
 
AbHobbyist said:
Gents if I may...........

With all due respect, might I strongly suggest you do no knock it until you try it.

I say this as I was too was skeptical, and thought it a heavy option, until I tried the Micro in a Larue tall mount (all of mine are H-1's) and an Aimpoint 3x magnifier in a larue swing.

What you have is an incredible flexible rig, with 1-3 changes right now. Further, if slick and fast is called for, you can remove the magifier and leave it in the kit box with a minimum of hassel. If you not sure what the paramters of your shooting will be, having the magnifier handy off to the side is a real bounus.

My experience is that the H-1 dot is smaller than 4 moa and larger than 3, so lets call it 3.5.
Click to expand...

This was a very informative post thanks ABH. What do you find the practical range of this combo to be?
 
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