It looks like and weighs as much as a brick. What benefits does it offer over any other 1-4?
New optic needed...opinions wanted.
- Thread starter Clobbersauras
- Start date
It looks like and weighs as much as a brick. What benefits does it offer over any other 1-4?
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
Size. It's a lot shorter than comparable S&B ,Nightforce, etc....
Priced lower than S&B or Nightforce, good FOV etc...
This chart has been posted elsewhere and may aid this discussion. Prices are USD and not comparable to what we pay up here.
**I don't see the Pitbull on the Wolverine site anymore. The one I saw in December was quite well priced compared to the other options on the chart. Pity.
Clobbersaurus
Raks posted the list you should choose from. A good 1-4x24 with allow you to shoot with both eyes open. I use the NF with a NP-1 reticle and can shoot with both eyes open all the way through power range. on one power its a true 1x optic with zero magnification. The millet DMS and Burris XTR are both very good optics the NF glass is a bit clearer and the optic is heavier. I can acquire targets on 1 power with the NF almost as quickly as I can using the Comp M4. Comp is on an 8 inch barrel and NF on a 17.8 inch barrel, but could be on the 8 inch as the shorty is a sub moa rifle with the right ammo (hornady match 75 gr) and has a 300M range for sure. You will never be disappointed with a good 1-4. Leupolds 1-6 are like looking through a tube, its the one optic from Leupold I wouldn't buy, having said that Leupold makes great products and their warranty is the BEST in the Business.
Raks posted the list you should choose from. A good 1-4x24 with allow you to shoot with both eyes open. I use the NF with a NP-1 reticle and can shoot with both eyes open all the way through power range. on one power its a true 1x optic with zero magnification. The millet DMS and Burris XTR are both very good optics the NF glass is a bit clearer and the optic is heavier. I can acquire targets on 1 power with the NF almost as quickly as I can using the Comp M4. Comp is on an 8 inch barrel and NF on a 17.8 inch barrel, but could be on the 8 inch as the shorty is a sub moa rifle with the right ammo (hornady match 75 gr) and has a 300M range for sure. You will never be disappointed with a good 1-4. Leupolds 1-6 are like looking through a tube, its the one optic from Leupold I wouldn't buy, having said that Leupold makes great products and their warranty is the BEST in the Business.
rajczak_kashka
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Surrey, B.C.
Re
Well........I do not speak from the world of speculation,rumor or "what I read somewhere".....I own and use the following optics:
- Elcan Spectre DR (2)
- Eotech 553
- Eotech 552.a65
- Aimpoint M2 Comp (2)
- Trijicon Reflex (RX01 and RX06)
- Trijicon Acog TA44R4
- Leupold M3 LR/T 10x40 illum
Have bought,sold and used an even broader spectrum of sights than mentioned above. I have a pretty good idea (from experience) what is good and what is not. The Elcan Spectre DR is well suited for it`s intended purpose. I replaced a Trijicon Acog ECOS and ACOG TA01NSN with the two DR`s I bought. In my opinion,they are far and away the better option due largely in part their versatility (1X red dot and 4X mag) all in one unit. I have had no issues with return to zero after switching or loose mounts. I have several friends who also own the DR and again....no issues other than they are expensive!
After reading the original post....again, the Spectre DR would not be suited to the AR with a 12.5" barrel. The DR is calibrated for the M4 carbine with 14.5" barrel. On my 10.5" LMT, I use the Eotech 553 or the Aimpoint M2 Comp. I personally prefer the 553.....
Well........I do not speak from the world of speculation,rumor or "what I read somewhere".....I own and use the following optics:
- Elcan Spectre DR (2)
- Eotech 553
- Eotech 552.a65
- Aimpoint M2 Comp (2)
- Trijicon Reflex (RX01 and RX06)
- Trijicon Acog TA44R4
- Leupold M3 LR/T 10x40 illum
Have bought,sold and used an even broader spectrum of sights than mentioned above. I have a pretty good idea (from experience) what is good and what is not. The Elcan Spectre DR is well suited for it`s intended purpose. I replaced a Trijicon Acog ECOS and ACOG TA01NSN with the two DR`s I bought. In my opinion,they are far and away the better option due largely in part their versatility (1X red dot and 4X mag) all in one unit. I have had no issues with return to zero after switching or loose mounts. I have several friends who also own the DR and again....no issues other than they are expensive!
After reading the original post....again, the Spectre DR would not be suited to the AR with a 12.5" barrel. The DR is calibrated for the M4 carbine with 14.5" barrel. On my 10.5" LMT, I use the Eotech 553 or the Aimpoint M2 Comp. I personally prefer the 553.....
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angryeyebrows
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Oscar Mike
Well you'll be singing a different tune when you break an ARMS lever OR it loosens up so much that the optic jiggles.
Bottom line is that a sight having it's adjustments built into a mount is a bad idea to begin with. On top of that, the style of the magnification mechanism is a poor design. Having two positions that depend on a lever being fully seated in those positions leaves another mechanism to fail. If a bunch of crud prevents the lever from closing fully, your optic's zero is out.
For the shorter barrel carbines, the Aimpont series can't be beat. The Eotech is neat, until you see the battery compartment bust off.
He doesn't run an VCAS sling so how can you trust him
I have about 4-5, that must mean you can trust me a lot!!!
And all I have are Aimpoints and Nightforce optics......
There must be a correlation there!
But then, I haven't bought and sold a #### load of different optics, so what do I know.
rajczak_kashka
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Surrey, B.C.
re
Yes, after much thought I felt that this was the best thing to do. I let the heat of the moment get to me and hit "submit reply" a bit sooner that I should have. I just get a bit flustered when folks tell me that stuff I have will/should break or is no good when in fact I (and many others) have no issue with it. The vast majority of the stuff I collect (firearms,optics,etc) is current US military issue and as such,must meet certain criteria. This stuff was designed and built with combat use in mind. Will it break or fail?....sure it will under certain conditions. Are there better products on the market?Probably not. Your experiences (real or imagined) are not mine with the products in question. I will always recommend stuff that I have positive experiences with so that others can gain insight.
Yes, after much thought I felt that this was the best thing to do. I let the heat of the moment get to me and hit "submit reply" a bit sooner that I should have. I just get a bit flustered when folks tell me that stuff I have will/should break or is no good when in fact I (and many others) have no issue with it. The vast majority of the stuff I collect (firearms,optics,etc) is current US military issue and as such,must meet certain criteria. This stuff was designed and built with combat use in mind. Will it break or fail?....sure it will under certain conditions. Are there better products on the market?Probably not. Your experiences (real or imagined) are not mine with the products in question. I will always recommend stuff that I have positive experiences with so that others can gain insight.
Well, we all post things when we're a little agitated or pissed off.
But when guys that have used the gear and kit in harms way to fight with(instead of just playing on a range) make recommendations, I tend to listen.
And if there's a pattern, it's usually good advice.
But when guys that have used the gear and kit in harms way to fight with(instead of just playing on a range) make recommendations, I tend to listen.
And if there's a pattern, it's usually good advice.
DUUUuuuude.
There are always better products on the market than what the military issues.
That's why most guys use Vickers Slings over the issue two and three point sling.
That's why a large number of guys purchase their own vests instead of using what the military issues.
Aimpoint, Nightforce, S&B are the only scopes I will buy for my personal firearms. Why?
I have used them, my buddies who go into harms way have used them, and I've seen them go through hell.
You ever thrown your Specter DR across the range? against a table? dropped it on the floor (scope first) while on a rifle?
I've seen Aimpoints do this countless times and maintain zero. I wouldn't even consider doing it with an EOTech.
Rajczak - remember a large number of guys here actually use this gear day in and day out for work. They don't just buy and sell it and make trips to the range.
rajczak_kashka
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Surrey, B.C.
Amen brother!!!!......now go out a buy yourself the DR!
Who uses it that goes into harms way?
I know a few guys who did in the CF, one of them has a family member who works for Elcan and the others got a deal on them from him.
Now, here's the thing, most guys don't need a scope that will take the abuse of overseas, however when you suggest scopes that cost more money than scopes that take overseas abuse.............
No. The patterns I mentioned will ensure my next optics are still Aimpoint and NF(S&B is too rich for me
).rajczak_kashka
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Surrey, B.C.
Spectre DR is current issue to USSOCOM. Many operators replaced the ACOG ECOS with these for the same reasons that I mentioned in earlier posts. There were some "issues" with gen 1 models that have since been rectified. These issues were related to shift as was also mentioned, I believe by you.
You are not the only person on this board who "knows" folks in the field. You should never assume that you are. Most guys I know wear stars and stripes on their shoulder though....Have many friends at Fort Lewis.
As for me "buying and selling" and "trips to the range", Don`t guys like you (One Shot) run a business to cater to guys like me? My collection of "range toys" are valued in excess of $60,000... I spend about $800 per month on ammo alone! Bet you wish you had me as a customer.....no?
You are not the only person on this board who "knows" folks in the field. You should never assume that you are. Most guys I know wear stars and stripes on their shoulder though....Have many friends at Fort Lewis.
As for me "buying and selling" and "trips to the range", Don`t guys like you (One Shot) run a business to cater to guys like me? My collection of "range toys" are valued in excess of $60,000... I spend about $800 per month on ammo alone! Bet you wish you had me as a customer.....no?
angryeyebrows
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Oscar Mike
You bet! If I had a business and you had the cash, I wouldn't turn you away! In fact, I wouldn't even care what you bought and used, as long as you were happy and kept on lining my pockets.
Yes, I do cater to guys who purchase their own gear (as I don't yet sell ammo or firearms
), but I try to help them make informed and justified decisions. I have talked guys out of buying gear, because what they had would work just fine.
My sole purpose of starting my business was to make sure guys get the best product for the job the first time.
If I get lots of clients who spend thousands every month well I'm happy, but what makes me really happy is when a client walks back into my store or sends me an email saying I was right and "thank you so much for your help, it was exactly what I needed" it makes it that much better.
What is extra special is when a client comes to me and says "you talked me out of such and such a product so I came back to do more of my shopping here", then proceeds to spend more than he would have the first time he was in.
I've seen and heard many business that sell junk, because they figure the client will come back again when it falls apart.
I'd rather sell high quality gear that never falls apart. What's amazing is the client always comes back for something else.
Just because a piece of equipment is issued, doesn't mean it's the best piece of kit for the job, or that the guys even like it. Even if it's for the more specialized units.
Hey, the S&W 5946 is the issued firearm to the rcmp, Canada's national police force(and the largest).
That must mean it's an amazing pistol.
