New PAL/RPAL-to-be / question on .22 magazine capacity limit

DarkSkyx

DarkSkyx

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I'll be taking my PAL and RPAL safety courses at the end of next month, and am reading the CFSC manuals, watching tons of Youtube vids, etc.

I thought Cdn law was that magazine capacity was 10 rounds (or 10+1 in chamber). I've seen a few vids with .22LR guns (Ruger SR22 for instance) that seems to 'break' the rules somewhat.

1: A Ruger 10/22 .22LR which is semi-automatic, is NOT a restricted gun (I thought all semi-autos were)
2: Someone mentioned a 25-round magazine for it, but the original Ruger mag was illegal, but a knockoff 25-round mag WAS legal.

Are the laws regarding .22 caliber rounds different than other calibers? (I'm only about 3/5ths of the way through my CFSC manual so far, so if the answer is in there, I just haven't come across it yet)

example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSOe8QT6Ik4&t=3m50s

edit:
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/bulletins/bus-ent/20110323-72-eng.htm

Ok so it looks like there's no rimfire magazine capacity for rifles, but the limit is 10 for rimfire handguns.

AAAhhh... but since the 25-round magazine that comes with the Ruger SR22 rifle is also made for and fits their handgun, that specific magazine is illegal.

re:
The Ruger BX-25 magazine, chambered for 22 LR calibre, is designed and manufactured for use in the Ruger SR22 rifle, the 10/22 family of rifles/carbines and the 22 Charger handgun. As a result, this magazine is a prohibited device unless modified so its capacity is 10 cartridges or less. (*This information was not included in the original version of this bulletin, but was added on 2013-09-05.)
Click to expand...

Grr.. funny how I searched for this stuff before, but only AFTER I post on here do my searches result in what I'm looking for :p
 
Not all semiautos are restricted. Only the ones with barrels shorter tha 18.5" or the ones that the government deems evil looking.
 
NOTE: There was a couple errors in my original post, I have edited in the corrections made by Mark.

The edits were under:
-magazines, centerfire, manual action
-barrel lengths for non-restricted, semi-auto, rimfire
-barrel length for pistols

Magazine laws are as follows:

RIFLES & SHOTGUNS

Semi-auto:
Rimfires= unlimmited capacity.
Center Fire= limmitted to 5 rounds **of the caliber the magazine was designed for.**

Manual Action (bolt, lever, pump, etc)
Unlimmited. Except for Enfields which are limmitted to 10 by name.

HANDGUNS
Limmited to 10.


** As a caiviet to the above semi-auto centerfire limit of 5 rounds you will find discrepancies in the law that allow you to load up to 3x as many rounds legally in specific mags.

Basically if you have an AR-15 or a Tavor (they both take Stanag pattern mags, also known as AR-15 mags) you can use "pistol" mags that are made and marked as such for an AR-15 pistol varient which allows a legal 10 rounds.

Another exception is by caliber. AR-15's can be configured in numerous calibers from .22LR, all the way up to a round called .50 Beowulf.

What does this mean exactly? TV-PressPass explains it quite nicely. http://youtu.be/Bt9a_QPFd50


Also another part that may confuse you is the barrel length and overall length (OAL) when determining status. I will give a short over view below.

Over All Length only effects Non-Restricted firearms. In order to maintain a non-restricted status, the firearm must NOT be capable of being fired with its OAL shorter than 26".

There is the odd exception however, such as the Rossi Ranch hand. Its OAL is 24", it is a lever action, and has a 12" barrel. I can't recall the law which allows for this classification.

BARREL LENGTH of RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS to remain Non Restricted:

Semi-auto:
Rimfire=Unlimmited
Centerfire= 18.5" minimum

Manual Action:
Unlimmited.

BARREL LENGTH FOR PISTOLS.
4.13" or 105mm. Equal to or shorter and it is Prohibited.
 
Last edited:
While I did mention some workarounds above, none will be on your test, so ignore them for your test, and don't bother asking your instructor, many people still don't know or understand how these laws work, but it all comes down to what was the mag designed for, speaking both about what firearm, and what caliber.
 
onetwentyish said:
Magazine laws are as follows:

RIFLES & SHOTGUNS

Semi-auto:
Rimfires= unlimmited capacity.
Center Fire= limmitted to 5 rounds **of the caliber the magazine was designed for.**

Manual Action (bolt, lever, pump, etc)
All unlimmited.

HANDGUNS
Limmited to 10.


** As a caiviet to the above semi-auto centerfire limit of 5 rounds you will find discrepancies in the law that allow you to load up to 3x as many rounds legally in specific mags.

Basically if you have an AR-15 or a Tavor (they both take Stanag pattern mags, also known as AR-15 mags) you can use "pistol" mags that are made and marked as such for an AR-15 pistol varient which allows a legal 10 rounds.

Another exception is by caliber. AR-15's can be configured in numerous calibers from .22LR, all the way up to a round called .50 Beowulf.

What does this mean exactly? TV-PressPass explains it quite nicely. http://youtu.be/Bt9a_QPFd50


Also another part that may confuse you is the barrel length and overall length (OAL) when determining status. I will give a short over view below.

Over All Length only effects Non-Restricted firearms. In order to maintain a non-restricted status, the firearm must NOT be capable of being fired with its OAL shorter than 26".

There is the odd exception however, such as the Rossi Ranch hand. Its OAL is 24", it is a lever action, and has a 12" barrel. I can't recall the law which allows for this classification.

BARREL LENGTH of RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS to remain Non Restricted:

Semi-auto:
Rimfire= 16" minimum
Centerfire= 18.5" minimum

Manual Action:
Unlimmited.

BARREL LENGTH FOR PISTOLS.
4.25" is the minimum, any shorter and it is Prohibited.
Click to expand...

Nicely done! :dancingbanana:
 
Don't forget about shotguns...

26" OAL and you can't cut the barrel below 18.5" ... However, a "factory short" barrel can be of any length so long as it's a manual action and the OAL stays above 26" - which is how you end up with the Dominion Grizzlies with 8.5" barrels and non restricted (DLask also makes a nicer quality similar version).

Basically, the Firearms act was written by a bunch of goons who were linguistically and engineering deficient, with only the faintest grasp of reality.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Canadian firearms law! Check your logic and reason with the coat-check girl, they don't apply in here.
 
onetwentyish said:
Magazine laws are as follows:

Manual Action (bolt, lever, pump, etc)
All unlimmited.
Click to expand...

Enfields are limited to 10 rounds by name. Yes, it's retarded.



onetwentyish said:
BARREL LENGTH of RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS to remain Non Restricted:

Semi-auto:
Rimfire= 16" minimum
Centerfire= 18.5" minimum
Click to expand...

Not true. Rimfire rifles have no minimum barrel length, regardless of action type. The only thing that determines non-restricted/restricted on a rimfire rifle is OAL.


onetwentyish said:
BARREL LENGTH FOR PISTOLS.
4.25" is the minimum, any shorter and it is Prohibited.
Click to expand...

Actually, anything equal to or less than 105mm is prohib, which is 4.13". I am being pedantic, but accuracy counts in this game. Also everybody should note that the actual barrel length and OAL limits in the criminal code are all given in metric dimensions and the imperial numbers often thrown around are not exact hard conversions from the CC numbers.


zeuce said:
unless the mag also happens to fit in a pistol then its 10 rounds. ie. BX25 and 715T
Click to expand...

Again not true. It is what the mag is designed for use in, not what it fits/functions in.


Mark
 
Bx25 and 715t were originally built for rifles. Look what happened with them. I hate our laws!!!
 
Mmattockx fixed some of the WRONG info posted by onetwentyish... barrel length for rimfire must exceed 105mm (4.13"), so there is a minimum length... also note that this is for factory made barrels... it does not apply to barrels being shortened after the fact of original purchase... the shortest you may cut a barrel to is 18" and this restriction applies to both rimfire and centerfire rifles. Also note that while a rimfire barrel may be 4.13" - 16"... the OAL must maintain a minimum of 26" (specific exceptions; Henry Mare's Leg & Rossi Ranch Hand etc...) to maintain non-restricted status. As far as magazines go, they are classified by the weapon the were designed and designated for with regard to capacity limits... for example the Ruger BX25 magazine was stipulated by the manufacturer for use in the 10/22 rifle AND the Charger pistol, therefore it was deemed prohibited due to the 25 round capacity usage in a pistol... IRONICALLY; the Butler Creek 25 round magazines are designated for the 10/22 rifle and are deemed a LEGAL magazine, but may ALSO be LEGALLY used in a Charger pistol with the FULL 25 round capacity... because the capacity is stipulated by the magazines designation not what it is being used in... this explains the Chargers popularity in some circles.
 
No wonder no LEO or anyone in the court system or even educated gun owners can't understand all these laws. Badly written and just too confusing, I would imagine that even the best lawyers have to study up before any court case or comments. The whole things insane. That's why illegal storage is the 1st and easiest step for most charges.
 
lyman54 said:
No wonder no LEO or anyone in the court system or even educated gun owners can't understand all these laws. Badly written and just too confusing, I would imagine that even the best lawyers have to study up before any court case or comments. The whole things insane. That's why illegal storage is the 1st and easiest step for most charges.
Click to expand...

Oh... Don't get me started about safe storage rules. That's a page's worth of vaguely worded, self contradicting legislation all of its own.
 
Not all semi-autos are restricted. AR-type rifles and some variants are restricted. However have a look at the JR Carbine or Thureon Defense carbines - AR-style rifle however blowback design, so non-restricted. Use Glock pistol mags, 10 rounds permitted.
 
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