New production ammo for milsurps???

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I have only been colllecting surplus rifles and pistols for a short time but have discovered that alot of the calibers are out of production and utterly unfindable. I know the most common thing to do for these is to handload. But im curious, what are some of the calibers that are easy to buy here in canada.
This would help me alot to figure out what to get next to have a shootable collection

some new productions off the top of my head that are currently being produced

7.62x54r
7.62x39
303
30-06

oops sry if it sounded like i said i was looking for the calibers like 303, the russians, and 30-06 i ment i know they do new productions of those id like to know any other old school rounds in new productions
 
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New manufacture ammo for old guns isn't cheap, usually at least a buck a round. 30-06 is still a popular round for hunting, so there's plenty of it, but sometimes .303, 8mm Mauser (or any Mauser for that matter), and any form of 7.62 can be a little difficult to find (outside of the 7.62 surplus, of course) and expensive when you do.
 
All of the above are available. The 7.62x39 is available pretty much everyewhere where I'm at in bulk. 303 and 30-06 are pricey but available as factory loads. Pretty sure you can get 7.62x54R most places as surplus.
 
For 303 & 30-06, there is the Remington UMC line carried by cabelas and bass pro for 20-25$. They are full metal jacket and good for plinking. Prvi partisan has loads for 7.62x54r, 6.5x55 swede and I'm sure others.
 
I don't have any issues finding 303 Brit or 30-06. At the range I find about 20 to 30 empty casings. Lead is cheap, fmj and SP bullets are reasonable. Factory ammo can be had just about anywhere and Cabelas and Wholesale Sprorts have the UMC in 174.

In other words, there is not an issue there.
 
You shouldn't have any trouble finding .30/06 as it never went out of production. Its a popular hunting round in the USA and Canada. .303 is harder to find but still available for hunting. Same for 6.5x55mm 8mm, 7.62x54R and even 7.62x39mm - they are available in hunting configurations.

Now if you want cheap ammo to plink with then you either need to buy surplus or reload. Brass is available, even for some of the more obscure calibers, but might not be cheap. As said you can find .30/06 and .303 brass on the ground/pails at your local range.

For some obsolete calibers you may have to reform brass.
 
There is definitely a very great deal to be said for the famed C.E. Harris UNIVERSAL LOAD for military rifles. It works for all FULL-SIZE military rifle rounds; just DO NOT try it in your 7.62x39 or your 7.92x33.

THE LOAD, as Harris once called it, is 13 (thirteen) grains of Red Dot shotgun powder behind a CAST bullet in the 180-grain range. Lead wheelweight metal is hard but works fine for this load.... and it pushes the slug out at around 1800 or so ft/sec, so you don't even really need a gas-check.

Proven ACCURACY is about 2 MOA, given that you have a decent bore, Leading is minimal with wheelweight metal. You get 537 loads from a pound of powder, plus your primer, so you can run a full mag through a Lee-Enfield and still come out with change from a buck. You can say the same for a Springfield or a Mauser or a Moisin-Nagant. This is a low-intensity loading, so the chances are that your gas-operated semi-auto won't run on it but, for under a dime a shot, who cares if you have to hand-cycle the brute?

This is BUFFDOG's 200-yard gopher-sniping load; the gophers have yet to complain.

Me? I'm getting another 800 pounds of wheelweights. Gotta do SOMETHING to get rid of this Red Dot!

Hope this helps.
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Wheelweight metal (given that they are lead-based to begin with; some of the new ones are zinc-based) can be refined, the Antimony removed for the most part and sold and the remaining lead used as a pretty decent material for shotgun slugs and pistol bullets. For SOFT lead, as for old originals and muzzleloaders and blackpowder guns, you want it more pure than that, but it can be done fairly easily.

But for something as great as the Harris Universal Load, you can use them just the way they are and get decent results.

And there is definitely something to be said for decent bullets at $1 a hundred.

If you want to run them faster, up into the range of the early heavy-Ball smokeless cartridges such as the .303 with either 215 or 174, the 7.62 Russian with the 214, .30-40 Krag (220), 8x58R Dansker, 7mm and 7.65 Mauser (both 174) and so forth, you just add a 3-cent gas-check and you're rarin' to go. You will, of course, need different powders for military velocities, but there are lots of good loads in the 1960 Lyman book and others, even the latest Cast Bullet Handbook.

But for messing about with my old SMLE Mark I***, I can shoot the old girl for a 1-cent bullet, a 3-cent primer and a nickel's worth of Red Dot. That's 11 rounds for a buck, for ammo that shoots better than 99% of surplus. And bore wear and shoulder punishment are near zero: bonus!

Pretty hard to beat.
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Wheelweight metal (given that they are lead-based to begin with; some of the new ones are zinc-based) can be refined, the Antimony removed for the most part and sold and the remaining lead used as a pretty decent material for shotgun slugs and pistol bullets. For SOFT lead, as for old originals and muzzleloaders and blackpowder guns, you want it more pure than that, but it can be done fairly easily.

But for something as great as the Harris Universal Load, you can use them just the way they are and get decent results.

And there is definitely something to be said for decent bullets at $1 a hundred.

If you want to run them faster, up into the range of the early heavy-Ball smokeless cartridges such as the .303 with either 215 or 174, the 7.62 Russian with the 214, .30-40 Krag (220), 8x58R Dansker, 7mm and 7.65 Mauser (both 174) and so forth, you just add a 3-cent gas-check and you're rarin' to go. You will, of course, need different powders for military velocities, but there are lots of good loads in the 1960 Lyman book and others, even the latest Cast Bullet Handbook.

But for messing about with my old SMLE Mark I***, I can shoot the old girl for a 1-cent bullet, a 3-cent primer and a nickel's worth of Red Dot. That's 11 rounds for a buck, for ammo that shoots better than 99% of surplus. And bore wear and shoulder punishment are near zero: bonus!

Pretty hard to beat.
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you should make a thread for this
 
These calibers from Prvi Partizan will be imported in the Spring, ask your local retailers to stock them for you. Only in FMJ, no SP will be imported by Bell Distributors.

- 7.5x55 mm Swiss FMJ

- 7.5x54 mm MAS FMJ

- 7.9x33 Kurzt FMJ

- 8x56R Hungarian FMJ

- 9mm Browning Long FMJ

- 7.62 Nagant Revolver FPJ

P.S. Unfortunately, the Prvi Patizan loadings of the Lebel 8x50r and Carcano 6.5x52 mm were left off the importation list this year. I suggest people interested in these calibers as your local Dealer to contact Bell Distributors and ask them to bring it in next year. Tel. 905-820-7000
 
Smellie:

Interesting data you posted. I began to look into some of C.E. Harris' articles, and I found one by him that seems to be a later revision of what you've written above:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6715356/castbulletmilitaryrifle.pdf

In it, he recommends using 16 grains of Hercules #2400 (now Alliant #2400) instead of Red Dot, which he recommends as an alternative in small amounts for his '100 yard target and small game' load.

Here's the relevant section:

The Workhorse Load - Mattern's "200 yard Target"

My favorite load is the most accurate. Mattern's so-called "200 yard target load." I expect 10 shot groups at 200 yards, firing prone rapid with sling to average 4-5". I shoot high Sharpshooter, low Expert scores across the course with an issue 03A3 or M1917, shooting in a cloth coat, using may cast bullet loads. The power of this load approximates the 32-40, inadequate for deer by today's standards. Mattern's "200 yard target load" is easy to assemble. Because it is a mild load, soft scrap alloys usually give better accuracy than harder ones, such as linotype. Local military collector-shooters have standardized on 16 grains of #2400 as the "universal" prescription. It gives around 1500 f.p.s. with a 150-180 grain cast bullet in almost any military caliber. We use 16 grains of #2400 as our reference standard, just as high power competitors use 168 Sierra Match Kings and 4895.

The only common military rifle cartridge in which 16 grains of #2400 provides a maximum load, and which must not be exceeded, is in the tiny 7.63x39mm case. Most SKS rifles will function reliably with charges of #2400 as light as 14 grains with the Lee 12-155-2R at around 1500 f.p.s. I designed this bullet especially for the 7.62x39, but it works very well as a light bullet in any .30 or .303 caliber rifle.

Sixteen Grains of #2400 is the Universal Load

The same 16 grain charge of #2400 is universal for all calibers as a starting load. It is mild and accurate in any larger military case from a 30-40 Krag or .303 British up through a 30-06 or 7.9x57, with standard weight bullets of suitable diameter for the caliber. This is my recommendation for anybody trying cast bullets loads for the first time in a military rifle without prior load development. I say this because #2400 is not "position sensitive", requires no fiber fillers to ensure uniform ignition, and actually groups better when you stripper-clip load the rifle and bang them off, rather than tipping the muzzle up to position the powder charge.

Similar ballistics can be obtained with other powders in any case from 7.62x39 to 30-06 size. If you don't have Hercules #2400, you can freely substitute 17 grains of IMR or H4227, 18 grains of 4198, 21 grains of Reloder 7, 24 grains of IMR 3031, or 25.5 grains of 4895 for comparable results. However, these other powders may give some vertical stringing in cases larger than the 7.62x39 unless the charge is positioned against the primer by tipping the muzzle up before firing. Hercules #2400 does not require this precaution. Don't ask me why. Hercules #2400 usually gives tight clusters only within a narrow range of charge weights within a grain or so, and the "universal" 16 grain load is almost always the best. Believe me, we have spent a lot of time trying to improve on
this, and you can take our word for it.

The beauty of the "200 yard target load" at about 1500 f.p.s. is that it can be assembled from bullets cast from the cheapest, inexpensive scrap alloy, and fired all day without having to clean the bore. It always works. Leading is never a problem. Once a uniform bore condition is established, the rifle behaves like a .22 match rifle, perhaps needing a warming shot or two if it has cooled, but otherwise being remarkably consistent.

The only thing I do after a day's shooting with this load is to swab the bore with a couple of wet patches of GI bore cleaner or Hoppe's, and let it soak until the next match. I then follow with three dry patches prior to firing. It takes only about three foulers to get the 03A3 to settle into tight little clusters again.
 
Great info for better shooting, of course.

Harris the Genius! He designed a couple of slugs for the 7.62x39. Lee Precision makes the moulds.... and they sure work nice in a Number 4, if just a little lightweight.

I think his earlier work with Red Dot was because it is a flake powder and hence less position-sensitive than 2400, although better suited to a field load. Also seems to be a bit less accurate although, with my present health problems (osteoarthritis, PPS and now CHF just added to the list) I'm really not in decent-enough condition to nay-say the man nor to confirm this from my own testing. Another 60 pounds of water off.... and I might be...... so you guys aren't safe yet!

And just everybody has Red Dot. Except maybe the local shop where I have had it on order for a year now.

Somebody really ought to start a "C.E. Harris Fan Club" or something.
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Great info for better shooting, of course.

Harris the Genius! He designed a couple of slugs for the 7.62x39. Lee Precision makes the moulds.... and they sure work nice in a Number 4, if just a little lightweight.

I think his earlier work with Red Dot was because it is a flake powder and hence less position-sensitive than 2400, although better suited to a field load. Also seems to be a bit less accurate although, with my present health problems (osteoarthritis, PPS and now CHF just added to the list) I'm really not in decent-enough condition to nay-say the man nor to confirm this from my own testing. Another 60 pounds of water off.... and I might be...... so you guys aren't safe yet!

And just everybody has Red Dot. Except maybe the local shop where I have had it on order for a year now.

Somebody really ought to start a "C.E. Harris Fan Club" or something.
.

Sorry to hear about the health problems.

Harris seems to regard the #2400 as not position sensitive as well. If this photo is correct (it's not mine), then 2400 is also a flake:

2400bullseye-1.jpg


That all said, I'll defer to your experience. I am not (yet) a reloader, though very interested int he subject.
 
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