If anyone knows gun powder, it'd be the Chinese!
New reloader can't find powder.......
- Thread starter 66spitfire
- Start date
If anyone knows gun powder, it'd be the Chinese!
imr 4320 or imr 4064 are virtually the same as varget and easier to get. I think a hoarder would be someone that buys and never uses and it shouldn't be based on how much they purchase. People on here would call me a hoarder because in the last 12 months I have purchased 76 lbs I don't have much left. I used 3 lbs on monday alone.
Schecter 81
Regular
- Location
- Edmonton Area
I know lots of guys who shoot 20-30K rounds per year while competing. Lots of people go through big volumes, what is hoarding is the guys who are scared they wont be able to get what they figure they will need, so they buy 2-3 years worth of each powder they use at a time and hang on to it. That generates a shortage. I try to purchase my whole season up front each Jan-Feb. I don't do much shooting through the winter so it gives me time to get my summer volume. Then again, I only go through a nominal amount for the two calibers I load for.
On the other hand, I have to stock up on the calibers I don't load for because ammo is short. I buy .223, 9mm, and .40 as it is available. My 9mm, and .40 I get from Ammomasters reloaded and place my orders well in advance for 5000 rounds each and that will typically last me half a season of each for 3-gun. My .223 I buy 1000 rounds at a time and try to buy another 1000 every time I drop to 1500 or so because it is so hard to get now. Maybe that is hoarding, but I go through it every season and cant afford to run out. Plus I don't have the time to reload or be fighting for components.
On the other hand, I have to stock up on the calibers I don't load for because ammo is short. I buy .223, 9mm, and .40 as it is available. My 9mm, and .40 I get from Ammomasters reloaded and place my orders well in advance for 5000 rounds each and that will typically last me half a season of each for 3-gun. My .223 I buy 1000 rounds at a time and try to buy another 1000 every time I drop to 1500 or so because it is so hard to get now. Maybe that is hoarding, but I go through it every season and cant afford to run out. Plus I don't have the time to reload or be fighting for components.
- Location
- Over the rainbow
How? That means they have removed their demand from the market for 2-3 years. They may have created a temporary (local) shortage, but as soon as supply is replenished they won't have any effect on the supply/demand balance.
So people will call you a 'hoarder' in January and February and then you are literally not a factor in the market for the remaining ten months of the year.
I used 18 lbs of powder last year on 2 .308 rifles alone.
That's not including .223.
This year I have 2 more .308's to shoot and 6,000 55gr Hornady FMJ's which will need another 22lbs of powder.
Some people shoot a lot and it's not our fault if we look ahead for components.
I recently purchased 4,000 .30 cal SMK's and I have 2,000 pieces of brass to put them in.
I'm having trouble finding diff powders also
I load for shotshells, and rifle. Shops here are
In low or no stock, just paid 42$ plus tax for some
322. And he is t sure when he's getting more
Can't find any Sam 1 wads for steel shot either
One shop here is selling powder as high as 57$/lb
For hodgdon brand, saying " it's in demand"
Almost like gas. Price goes up every week.
It's not fair that US people are killing the stocks
Of ammo and supplies , go online and watch lineups
At Walmart at 5in morning, waiting for the ammo
Truck, have a friend in Boston, he can't find 22
Ammo to take his son shooting! That's not fair
To many zombie movies and end of the world
Shows getting to people , nobody ever hoarded
It before, always lots around and prices half of
Now, same as lead shot, use to be 15$ a bag
Now 57$ a bag, totally greed
I load for shotshells, and rifle. Shops here are
In low or no stock, just paid 42$ plus tax for some
322. And he is t sure when he's getting more
Can't find any Sam 1 wads for steel shot either
One shop here is selling powder as high as 57$/lb
For hodgdon brand, saying " it's in demand"
Almost like gas. Price goes up every week.
It's not fair that US people are killing the stocks
Of ammo and supplies , go online and watch lineups
At Walmart at 5in morning, waiting for the ammo
Truck, have a friend in Boston, he can't find 22
Ammo to take his son shooting! That's not fair
To many zombie movies and end of the world
Shows getting to people , nobody ever hoarded
It before, always lots around and prices half of
Now, same as lead shot, use to be 15$ a bag
Now 57$ a bag, totally greed
We should have a powder manufacture in Canada
For smokeless and black powder for muzzleloader hunters
And rifle cartridges like imperial use to, challenger
Makes great shotshells. nd are affordable , why can't we
Have our own manufactures of powder And components
, we wouldn't have to depend on us manufactures for our
Ammo??? Gevelot use to make rifle ammo as well
In Canada I believe, same as firearm manufactures
Why can canada have that? Cooey and lake field
Use to be here, made gd guns,
For smokeless and black powder for muzzleloader hunters
And rifle cartridges like imperial use to, challenger
Makes great shotshells. nd are affordable , why can't we
Have our own manufactures of powder And components
, we wouldn't have to depend on us manufactures for our
Ammo??? Gevelot use to make rifle ammo as well
In Canada I believe, same as firearm manufactures
Why can canada have that? Cooey and lake field
Use to be here, made gd guns,
The key to reloading is being versatile. I don't think I have ever seen a single rifle that only shot one powder well. Sometimes better combinations come from necessity. I went to LGS looking for 100V and came home with 4 pounds of RL-17 instead, no big deal. To me the fun of reloading is the work-up.
theres an alternative: check load tables for CFE-223. very successful stuff
Place an order with Higginson's or go online and order whatever Cabela's lists as in stock, they will ship it for free to the nearest store and you can go pick it up or you can pay extra and they will ship it directly to you.
I just ordered around 20 pounds of various powders over the last couple months. It isn't hard to get powder but you may have to find a new powder and develop a new load. Varget is nearly impossible to find but there are plenty of good substitutes.
Don't blame hoarders, blame the US for buying it all up because their government is crazy and they are all afraid they won't be able to buy it anymore. The powder manufacturers can't keep up and we only get their leftovers.
To the retailers don't limit purchases, you are getting your money either way and people should be buying more than one pound when they find it, when buying a few pounds you are more likely to get from the same lot and for guys like me that are loading for 338 Lapua I only get around 70 loads per pound so I need to buy a few at a time.
I just ordered around 20 pounds of various powders over the last couple months. It isn't hard to get powder but you may have to find a new powder and develop a new load. Varget is nearly impossible to find but there are plenty of good substitutes.
Don't blame hoarders, blame the US for buying it all up because their government is crazy and they are all afraid they won't be able to buy it anymore. The powder manufacturers can't keep up and we only get their leftovers.
To the retailers don't limit purchases, you are getting your money either way and people should be buying more than one pound when they find it, when buying a few pounds you are more likely to get from the same lot and for guys like me that are loading for 338 Lapua I only get around 70 loads per pound so I need to buy a few at a time.
The hoarding is not with the buyers here. The hoarding is being done by the distributors in the states. Gun ownership in the states went up so dramatically in the last 5 years that the demand is still high. Until the distribution can handle the sales in the states we will continue to be on the short end of the stick. If we still had a manufacturer here in Canada it would likely be a different story.
- Location
- fraser valley
we do make it here then send it down there, then back up here is what im told..lol. for us it isnt all that hard to get stock, just doesnt last long
I don't get it. Someone walk me through how this 'hoarding' thing is supposed to work. It just doesn't make sense to me.
* If Joe C. Hoarder walks into his local gun shop and buys all the Varget on the shelf, assuming he doesn't have infinite space to store it somewhere, that just means he's going to have a #### ton of Varget and won't need to come back and buy any for a while.
* If Joe buys all the Varget on the shelf, shoots a few pounds of it, then decides that his hoard is getting low and he needs to top it up, he's only going to be buying a few pounds of it. He won't look like a hoarder any more.
* If Joe actually shoots all of that Varget in a time frame that's short enough for him to be coming back and needing to buy up all the Varget again then he's not hoarding-- he's just buying what he needs because he shoots a lot.
The idea that Joe comes in and buys all the Varget every time it shows up just doesn't make any sense. Where's he putting it all? Does he have 10,000 pounds of Varget stored in a bunker somewhere and is thinking of picking up a second bunker because he's running out of space?
As far as I can see, this is just supply and demand. There are N reloaders in Canada who, combined, need to consume X amount of powder every year. Whether they buy it in big batches or in small batches doesn't really matter-- over the course of any given period of time they're still going to be using the same amount of powder (assuming they shoot the powder they acquire and don't have infinite space to store it). The amount of powder coming into the country, or being manufactured locally, is either going to meet that demand or it's not. Clearly right now there is more demand than supply.
One thing I can see that would be problematic wouldn't be 'hoarding'-- it would be 'scalping'. I've heard about this in the US, where guys who don't even shoot will come in and buy up all the .22 LR as soon as it hits the shelves and then sell it at a ridiculous markup.
Anyway, I'm dumb. Maybe I'm missing something.
Logic like this is not welcome in a thread bashing people for buying in bulk... Your points are all spot on.
First, what is wrong with buying a 2-3 year supply of components if you can afford it? Prices only go up and supply is uncertain, so I think that laying in a 3 year supply is just smart. I tried to do that a couple of years ago and found I couldn't afford a 3 year supply of everything bought in a short time frame...
As HeavyTread notes, the person who buys a 3 year supply at once is then done buying and competing with you for powder for the next 3 years.Second, you complain about people "hoarding" reloading supplies, then admit you "hoard" ammo because you can't take the chance on coming up short when you need it. Have you ever thought that the people "hoarding" supplies can't take the chance on coming up short, either?
Mark
The problem is much bigger than powder. It is just about everything to do with the firearms industry.
You buy a Ford or Chev if you want a car that will have available spare parts and lots of places that can fix it. If you buy a Porsche you know you have limited choices.
If you buy some weirdo caliber like 0.416 Rigby every gun store has boxes of dusty bullets, cases, dies etc. Try buying a collet for either a Hornady or RCBS bullet puller in 30 caliber - back order 6-9 weeks. Dies, shell holders, bullets in common weights (155 168 gn. AMAX); 0.311 FMJ etc. etc. Nope, none of those.... but I got these nice (insert caliber you never heard of)...
It's like some Stalin era "all we got is turnips..". Don't know how you make money selling stuff when everything is "sold out".
Seems to me what is missing is effective competition.
I buy stuff I don't need just because I will probably never see it again if I need it.
You buy a Ford or Chev if you want a car that will have available spare parts and lots of places that can fix it. If you buy a Porsche you know you have limited choices.
If you buy some weirdo caliber like 0.416 Rigby every gun store has boxes of dusty bullets, cases, dies etc. Try buying a collet for either a Hornady or RCBS bullet puller in 30 caliber - back order 6-9 weeks. Dies, shell holders, bullets in common weights (155 168 gn. AMAX); 0.311 FMJ etc. etc. Nope, none of those.... but I got these nice (insert caliber you never heard of)...
It's like some Stalin era "all we got is turnips..". Don't know how you make money selling stuff when everything is "sold out".
Seems to me what is missing is effective competition.
I buy stuff I don't need just because I will probably never see it again if I need it.
This statement is the definition of hoarding in my opinion.
I buy powder in bulk but not stuff I don't even need.
But who cares, buy what you want.
I agree, there is not enough effective competition. Powder companies haven't been able to keep up, there should be more powder companies then, unless the shortage really lies in the raw materials they make the powder out of? I'm not sure why powder manufactures are scared to really grow their business, this keeps happening so I don't think its a short term spike in demand.
I've reloaded pistol for the last couple of years and each pound makes close to 1000 rounds. So the powder lasts awhile for me as I don't shoot a whole lot of pistol. This week though I started reloading 308. That 1 pound of powder is only 200 rounds. So if you shoot/ reload rifle your going to need a larger supply than the guy who only reloads pistol. If your into different calibers and reload shotgun, pistol, rifle you will need a large supply of powder and different powders. Its not hoarding its just supplying all of your babies.
