New Reloader - Questions about Dominion brand smokeless powder

[Canuck44]

I went through 8 lbs of D700 in my 38spl and 9MM handguns. I found it relatively clean burning and excellent powder. No experience with rifles. Great powder for the price. No that needs correcting, it is an excellent powder, the price makes it more attractive.

Take Care

Bob

 

[JaredP]

I totally disagree. Regardless of the powder, the onus to develop a safe load is ALWAYS on the reloader.

Relying on published data and ignoring whats actually happening in YOUR gun is a recipe for disaster whether you use canister grade or not. If you have a rifle with a saami minimum spec chamber, and the book data was developed using a rifle with a more generous chamber (not over spec, just more generous than your minimum spec chamber) you can run into high pressures before you hit book max - hell I've heard stories from some of the veterans around here that have had overpressure from a MIN load before. This is the whole reason of working up a load - the book tells you what the results were in THEIR rifle, not yours.

"totally disagree" is a pretty dramatic way to put it, but i agree with the point that that the onus is always on the reloader.

My point is that there is even more of an onus when you have two degrees of freedom (unknown burn rate AND unknown internal ballistic profile) versus one (just the internal ballistics) when reloading. The point is to keep it simple if you are just getting started, the less variables you have to account for, the safer reloads you can produce.

 

[bearhunter]

I totally disagree. Regardless of the powder, the onus to develop a safe load is ALWAYS on the reloader.

Relying on published data and ignoring whats actually happening in YOUR gun is a recipe for disaster whether you use canister grade or not. If you have a rifle with a saami minimum spec chamber, and the book data was developed using a rifle with a more generous chamber (not over spec, just more generous than your minimum spec chamber) you can run into high pressures before you hit book max - hell I've heard stories from some of the veterans around here that have had overpressure from a MIN load before. This is the whole reason of working up a load - the book tells you what the results were in THEIR rifle, not yours.

I completely agree. people really need to do some due diligence on their own. Coming here is a good place to start.

This isn't alchemy or rocket science.

One thing I've noticed is some folks use cell phones for all of internet access. I don't know if this restricts their search parameters or not?

 

[Helka]

When I first started reloading I kept seeing/hearing people talk about their rifles liking near max "hot" load. But in my experience (only 3 yrs reloading) my r700 prefers low to middle load for best groupings. For example for Varget in 167gr the starting load is like 32 and max in 44. Best 3 shot grouping came at 33.5. I was able to get 5 shots at .264" using 33.5. I purchased the 5lb D4895 (closest to Varget) and cant wait to get to the range for load development.

 

[bearhunter]

When I first started reloading I kept seeing/hearing people talk about their rifles liking near max "hot" load. But in my experience (only 3 yrs reloading) my r700 prefers low to middle load for best groupings. For example for Varget in 167gr the starting load is like 32 and max in 44. Best 3 shot grouping came at 33.5. I was able to get 5 shots at .264" using 33.5. I purchased the 5lb D4895 (closest to Varget) and cant wait to get to the range for load development.

What you're describing isn't unusual.

Things change as components/rifles change.

I have some very accurate rifles. If I stick to one bullet/powder/primer, there is usually a specific sweet spot, where the harmonics are very consistent. Sometimes it's at the high or even slightly over what manuals suggest.

Most rifles like the loads to be somewhere between the minimum and maximum range.

A very astute friend recently purchased a lovely new Kimber, chambered in 308Win. It shot several brands/shapes of 165r bullets into sub moa groups.

The issue he had (sold it) with it was that it would only do this about 1 grain off suggested minimum charges, with all powder types tried, at least 6.

When the powder charge increased, the groups opened up dramatically

For his purposes, he needs better velocities, with that particular weight bullet. It's what he hunts with from 20m to 500m and he knows the trajectories/drift mannerisms inside out.

IMHO, you're going to be very pleased with D895.

 

[RifleDude]

.......Additionally, is Dominion a good brand? The price seems great to me, but I want to make sure I'm not missing any crucial details.

Both Dominion and IMR powders are made by General Dynamics in their Valleyfield Quebec plant. IIRC, the Dominion brand is their OEM version and IMR is their commercial canister version of each type of powder. They're made on the same machines. For safety reasons, the Dominion (OEM) powders recommended start loads are 10% lower than their canister versions.

 

[Janeau]

Both Dominion and IMR powders are made by General Dynamics in their Valleyfield Quebec plant. IIRC, the Dominion brand is their OEM version and IMR is their commercial canister version of each type of powder. They're made on the same machines. For safety reasons, the Dominion (OEM) powders recommended start loads are 10% lower than their canister versions.

Unless you work at the Valleyfield plant - and your are a chemist there - your statement they are the same and made on the same machine has no foundation.

They have different loading data - even if they are close - and they have to be treated as such.

Canister powder are made for reloaders and offer as close as possible a standard burn rate and specs from one bottle to the next.

Non canister powder, bulk, are made for ammo manufacturer and they are to be ‘adjusted ´ modified to obtain what the ammo lab want them to do - they vary quite a bit from lot to lot. Higginson in Hawksbury sold this type of repacked powder for years to reloader - the advise of starting 10 % low with each lot is a wise and recommended advise with those.

Hodgdon started their business that way - selling repacked powder - civilian and and military powder for years. But maintaining standards with those was near impossible. They moved away from that to concentrate on repeatable quality canister powder. Story taken from their old manual..

 

[emerson]

Okay so "Work up" means that I should increase my loads to find the maximum? I'd prefer not to. There's nothing wrong with making my loads "average" is there? (The midpoint between starting load amount and max load amount)

Like several posters have said, using a load in the middle of one manual’s range doesn’t mean much. Your particular factory rifle can have very different results from mine with the same load. Add variances in brass, primers, seating depth (measured at the ogive) and a reloader always has to work up from toward the bottom end of any table to find a safe, effective load. I realize in our current “safe space world” such uncertainty is a bit uncomfortable. I felt the same when I started reloading. You will become used to the feeling of making decisions based on your experience with your application and individual rifles. It’s a level of calculated risk that is foreign to large parts of our society nowadays. The only thing that keeps us on our side of the double yellow line is constant risk management.