New Remington 45-70 full power load

[Slamfire]

At nearly 30% off it's a good deal. Got 1 on the way. Owned an SS, GS and XLR. Decided on a GBL. Next to decide which XS rail to get.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

At nearly 30% off it's a good deal. Got 1 on the way. Owned an SS, GS and XLR. Decided on a GBL. Next to decide which XS rail to get.

Similar to yourself, I had a GS which I have since given to my Son who lives in the B.C. central interior. Nice rifle, however, I was never too fond of the straight stock design, especially when using the hotter loads the Marlin can handle along with the heavier bullets. Found that combo could be a little hard on the fingers. I also opted for a GBL and I've since added an XS rail like the upper one pictured in your post. Also, added a 2 - 7 Hi-Lux scope to the package.

 

[Slamfire]

Preference is the pistol grip stock for a Marlin. Would prefer a base the allows the scope to be mounted a bit further forward to clear the hammer, more forward than my Leupold base allows but not necessarily a Scout scope set up.

My Nikon Omega 3-9x40mm (with BDC 250 reticle ) is fairly compact and has about a constant 6" of eye relief throughout the power range so I should go with the XS lever rail rather than the lever Scout rail.

 

[todbartell]

I had shot the 405gr Remington ammo through two different 18.5" barrel 1895's, both were sub 1000 fps (975 fps or so)

 

[torontogungal]

Too bad there's no way of getting bulk 405 grain core-lokts for the 45-70.
Could push those suckers to 1500 fps and beyond no problem.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Too bad there's no way of getting bulk 405 grain core-lokts for the 45-70.
Could push those suckers to 1500 fps and beyond no problem.

That was/is the jacketed bullet I decided to go with and as luck would have it, I picked up a SIZEABLE quantity at a local gun show a while back. Enough to keep me busy in both my Marlin GBL and a Magnum Research BFR.

 

[Why not?]

Too bad there's no way of getting bulk 405 grain core-lokts for the 45-70.
Could push those suckers to 1500 fps and beyond no problem.

You can get all the 400-450 gr cast bullets you want, and they can be driven well beyond 1500 fps without leading and good accuracy.

Ted

 

[torontogungal]

You can get all the 400-450 gr cast bullets you want, and they can be driven well beyond 1500 fps without leading and good accuracy.

Ted

At what point would these hc lead cast bullets need copper gas checks crimped to their bases?

 

[H4831]

Ted, in Canada and USA, no one can make for resale, any 45-70 cartridges loaded heavier than about 1400 fps with a 405 grain bullet.
It's been this way since the first commercial smokeless powder 45-70 cartridges were loaded.

 

[Slamfire]

Remington 45 caliber 405gr bullets were available in bulk several years ago for $25 per 100. Not any more. Speer 45 caliber 400gr FN are still around -

https://x-reload.com/speer-45-458-400gr-fnsp-bullet-flatnose-50-bx.html

 

[unstableryan]

I find that 405 to 480 gr cast don't really need to go faster than 1600 or so to really work well on game. They probably don't need to go that fast, but I have a lot of confidence walking around the mountains when I have 5 of them in my rifle.

 

[Why not?]

At what point would these hc lead cast bullets need copper gas checks crimped to their bases?

I load 285 gr plain base cast bullets to over 2200 fps with no leading at all in the 9.3X62. You can read about it here: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...-Bullet-####?p=9636645&viewfull=1#post9636645
The pictures are gone, but the method is still there.

Here's why I think it works: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1020563-Cast-Bullet-####?p=9659856&viewfull=1#post9659856

Further report: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1020563-Cast-Bullet-####?p=9824049&viewfull=1#post9824049

Another one of the members on here, BwanaDave, tried it in his 30-06 with the same results. No leading whatsoever at over 2200 fps velocity. https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1020563-Cast-Bullet-####?p=9893472&viewfull=1#post9893472

It works just as well in the 45-70. Give it a try!
Ted

 

[Slamfire]

Unsatisfactory results with commercially available 45-70 cast bullets. Too many fliers and key-holers so I have dismissed these for hunting. I suppose more effort is needed as I should try casting these myself to try to get reliable results (but to me that takes a lot of time).

Anyhow, the 405gr FN Woodleigh Weldcore should be an excellent bullet for the Marlin because it's a core-bond design for controlled expansion. I thought Swift made a 400gr AF/FN but it's only a 350gr.

I've loaded the Hornady 500gr RN bullet at 1525 fps MV in the 18-1/2" barrel Guide I used to own. Should perform well on heavy game.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Initially I got into casting and using cast bullets to supply my needs when I began involvement in some aspects of competitive handgun paper punching. Much of this was used in the velocity range of 750 f/sec-1300 f/sec. Although not much, I have 'tried' some higher velocity applications in rifles, but not much however. I'd venture to say any leading issues I experienced was primarily governed by a few factors. Bullet lube and bullet metal composition/hardness. Gas checks seemed to help when using a softer lead mix but with few exceptions, most of the bullets I used and presently have are plain base. As sort of a 'standard' when I was casting what I used primarily was wheel weights which cast fairly hard bullets. Quenching supposedly adds an additional level of hardness but it's not something I found the need for with the velocities I've been dealing with. In addition, for the top of the line paper punching bullets, I had a supply of linotype. Casts beautifully and very hard.
That being said, casting bullets was/is my least favorite reloading operation. Consequently, when I first got my 500 S&W, one of the few available sources of supply locally for bullets is a friend who is hot & heavy into casting. I now get all my cast bullet needs from him and to make sure I'm never tempted to cast again, I sold my melting pot, moulds and sizing/lube 'goodies'.

 

[unstableryan]

I've done the same thing with the 500's. Used a compressed enough load that i didn't need to use the cannalure for crimping. I've got a box left, I should try them out again.

 

[torontogungal]

Unsatisfactory results with commercially available 45-70 cast bullets. Too many fliers and key-holers so I have dismissed these for hunting. I suppose more effort is needed as I should try casting these myself to try to get reliable results (but to me that takes a lot of time).

Anyhow, the 405gr FN Woodleigh Weldcore should be an excellent bullet for the Marlin because it's a core-bond design for controlled expansion. I thought Swift made a 400gr AF/FN but it's only a 350gr.

I've loaded the Hornady 500gr RN bullet at 1525 fps MV in the 18-1/2" barrel Guide I used to own. Should perform well on heavy game.

Where would you get Woodleigh Weldcore bullets in Canada?
Heck we can't even find 405 grain core-lokts.
The bullet barn sells .459 dia hard cast lead bullets including 405 grain.
We're so limited in Canada with what we can get.
Back in the 80s we could import shooting supplies from the usa.
It would cost us but at least we could get it.
Now itar has that all fk'd up.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Where would you get Woodleigh Weldcore bullets in Canada?
Heck we can't even find 405 grain core-lokts.
The bullet barn sells .459 dia hard cast lead bullets including 405 grain.
We're so limited in Canada with what we can get.
Back in the 80s we could import shooting supplies from the usa.
It would cost us but at least we could get it.
Now itar has that all fk'd up.

Any Woodleigh bullets I've acquired I've purchased through a site sponsor, T.E.C Trade Ex Canada Inc.

 

[Slamfire]

Right, TradeEx carries Woodleigh bullets. Good results with 35 caliber 310gr Weldcores so the 45 caliber 405gr should perform well.

https://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/w30b-woodleigh-bullets-4570-405gr-flat-nose--

I suppose 405gr Remington or PRVI factory loads could be purchased then re-assembled with a heavier charge of propellant for higher muzzle speeds.

http://www.cabelas.ca/product/4624/remington-centerfire-rifle-ammunition?productVariantId=13215

https://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/45-70-government-ammunition-prvi-partizan-405gr-sjfp

 

[torontogungal]

Those 45-70 factory loads are pretty anemic with garden hose trajectories. I'd be better off carrying the 30-30.
TradeEx is fresh out of the 405 grain Woodleighs for 45-70 velocity range of course.

 

[Slamfire]

45 caliber Hornady 350gr RN hold together well but don't expand quite as much as the Remington 405gr FN at comparable impact speeds. Bullets recovered from Moose at impact speeds shown.