New rifle build legal question

[baylisstic1098r]

Firstly Happy New Year to all.

Let's all pray for quick 4 year Red Term with no amendments and get back to BLUE ASAP


Couple of quick questions

I am about to build my first AR.

Received the new lower receiver, and the registration from RCMP for the lower.

It is stamped Multi Caliber.

I am using a 223 Wylde barrel in my first upper build, do I need to call the RCMP back to get it registered as 223?

If I were to build another upper in 300 Black Out would I be able to use the same lower as it is marked Multi Caliber?

Thanks

Baylisstic1098r

 

[Slopok]

To my knowledge, the only thing that you need to register would be the lower, it doesn't matter what your upper is. They don't need to know that it is a .223/5.56, 300blk or what ever. So long as your lower is registered, they don't need to know.

 

[willisjake]

To my knowledge, the only thing that you need to register would be the lower, it doesn't matter what your upper is. They don't need to know that it is a .223/5.56, 300blk or what ever. So long as your lower is registered, they don't need to know.

This is incorrect. You will find the real answer on the RCMP website.
You dont have to register the upper, but barrel lenght and caliber do come into play.
Carefull taking legal advise from the internet, many seem to guess the right answer at your expence.

 

[Suputin]

The "Multi Caliber" thing is US only. It has no bearing in Canada.

The law says you have 30 days to inform CFC of any changes. Store the rifle with upper removed and you can avoid the foolishness.

Willisjake: I have 5 lowers and 8 uppers. Any upper can fit on any lower. That makes 40 possible configurations. Do you really think CFC is going to issue me 40 reg certs?

 

[hbean]

You do have to call to update the status of your firearm when you change it from "lower receiver only " to a "complete rifle". During the status change they will ask you about the caliber and barrel, that is just a because the database system requires an entry, they have to fill it in they can't leave it blank. otherwise they know AR uppers are interchangeable and people do change it all the time.

Conditions

• 4 (1) Subject to section 5, the Registrar shall attach to a registration certificate that is issued in respect of a firearm the condition that the holder of the certificate shall advise the Registrar, within 30 days after the modification, of
  
  • (a) any modification to the firearm that results in a change of class of the firearm;
    
  • (b) in the case of a firearm registered as a frame or receiver only, any modification that makes it capable of discharging ammunition;
    
  • (c) any modification to an altered automatic firearm; and
    
  • (d) any modification that results in the firearm ceasing to be a firearm.

 

[Local]

You do have to call to update the status of your firearm when you change it from "lower receiver only " to a "complete rifle". During the status change they will ask you about the caliber and barrel, that is just a because the database system requires an entry, they have to fill it in they can't leave it blank. otherwise they know AR uppers are interchangeable and people do change it all the time.

Did you read Suputin's post above? You do not have to "complete" the rifle, which means you do not have to contact the CFC and change a piece of paper that makes no difference at all.

Local

 

[Brianma65]

My BRO lower , registration card was stamped frame/receiver only. Thought I could put what I wanted on there as its only the lower that's registered anyway

 

[baylisstic1098r]

Thanks for the info

 

[willisjake]

Willisjake: I have 5 lowers and 8 uppers. Any upper can fit on any lower. That makes 40 possible configurations. Do you really think CFC is going to issue me 40 reg certs?

Read the top left section of your Registration Certificate on your five different lowers.

Standard Conditions
Firearm owners must report to the registrar of firearms, within 30 days:
-any modification to the type, action, caliber or gauge of the firearm.

You may argue that has no effect on barrel length, but a quick call to the CFO and you may find they feel it does.

My BRO lower , registration card was stamped frame/receiver only. Thought I could put what I wanted on there as its only the lower that's registered anyway

You sir need to register your rifle properly....

4 (1) Subject to section 5, the Registrar shall attach to a registration certificate that is issued in respect of a firearm the condition that the holder of the certificate shall advise the Registrar, within 30 days after the modification, of


(b) in the case of a firearm registered as a frame or receiver only, any modification that makes it capable of discharging ammunition;






Check the RCMP website

 

[Hoag]

The "Multi Caliber" thing is US only. It has no bearing in Canada.

Actually, it does have a bearing in Canada (or anywhere else for that matter). It lets you know that you can safely put an upper on it that is chambered in any of the common AR-15 calibers such as .223 Remington, .223 Wyde, 5.56 NATO or .300 Blackout.

Some lowers are stamped indicating that they are to be used for a specific caliber as shown below.

 

[Brianma65]

Read the top left section of your Registration Certificate on your five different lowers.

Standard Conditions
Firearm owners must report to the registrar of firearms, within 30 days:
-any modification to the type, action, caliber or gauge of the firearm.

You may argue that has no effect on barrel length, but a quick call to the CFO and you may find they feel it does.



You sir need to register your rifle properly....

4 (1) Subject to section 5, the Registrar shall attach to a registration certificate that is issued in respect of a firearm the condition that the holder of the certificate shall advise the Registrar, within 30 days after the modification, of


(b) in the case of a firearm registered as a frame or receiver only, any modification that makes it capable of discharging ammunition;






Check the RCMP website

I was just pointing out that what it said on OP reg is different than what it said on mine. It's neither here nor there to me as I've since sold the upper. But thanks, it's good to know for the next time...

 

[Sqr]

Actually, it does have a bearing in Canada (or anywhere else for that matter). It lets you know that you can safely put an upper on it that is chambered in any of the common AR-15 calibers such as .223 Remington, .223 Wyde, 5.56 NATO or .300 Blackout.

Some lowers are stamped indicating that they are to be used for a specific caliber as shown below.

To clarify are you stating that the pictured 223 must become a 223 rifle?

 

[Hoag]

To clarify are you stating that the pictured 223 must become a 223 rifle?

I'm saying that if you chose to build your rifle with another caliber (such as .300 Blackout for instance) that is more powerful, you do so at your own discretion and at your own risk and that the lower is not necessarily designed to handle the increased pressures and forces. When in doubt, get the part that was designed for the intended use.

(Without a doubt, there is a chance that you may have no issues, but if you do, then it was because you chose a lower that was not designed for your choice of calibers. The manufacturer of the lower would then have a very defensible position if something went wrong and they were sued.)

 

[TheGr8One]

Sorry, but that is completely incorrect. All of the "power", is in the upper. There is very little pressure, if any in a lower.

I'm saying that if you chose to build your rifle with another caliber (such as .300 Blackout for instance) that is more powerful, you do so at your own discretion and at your own risk and that the lower is not necessarily designed to handle the increased pressures and forces. When in doubt, get the part that was designed for the intended use.

(Without a doubt, there is a chance that you may have no issues, but if you do, then it was because you chose a lower that was not designed for your choice of calibers. The manufacturer of the lower would then have a very defensible position if something went wrong and they were sued.)

 

[rommelrommel]

I'm saying that if you chose to build your rifle with another caliber (such as .300 Blackout for instance) that is more powerful, you do so at your own discretion and at your own risk and that the lower is not necessarily designed to handle the increased pressures and forces. When in doubt, get the part that was designed for the intended use.

(Without a doubt, there is a chance that you may have no issues, but if you do, then it was because you chose a lower that was not designed for your choice of calibers. The manufacturer of the lower would then have a very defensible position if something went wrong and they were sued.)

Dude, that's ridiculous. The only difference is the inscription.

 

[Hoag]

Dude, that's ridiculous. The only difference is the inscription.

OK, fair enough. But if there is no difference, then why would the manufacturer not simply mark all of them as "Multi Cal"?

 

[Suputin]

Actually, it does have a bearing in Canada (or anywhere else for that matter). It lets you know that you can safely put an upper on it that is chambered in any of the common AR-15 calibers such as .223 Remington, .223 Wyde, 5.56 NATO or .300 Blackout.

Some lowers are stamped indicating that they are to be used for a specific caliber as shown below.

Phhht WTF are you talking about? How is a lower different for any caliber?

An AR lower is an AR lower. They are ALL the same. That multi caliber thing is a US only thing and it has to do with their laws.

 

[cr5]

OK, fair enough. But if there is no difference, then why would the manufacturer not simply mark all of them as "Multi Cal"?

There are only three or four companies that actually forge uppers and lowers, they then sell blanks to all the different AR manufacturers where the finishing work is done and they are roll marked with their own branding. As has been stated already, all uppers and lowers are pretty much exactly the same with the exception of the finishing work. As Suputin stated, some are stamped 223/5.56 and some are stamped multi solely for the US laws depending what the manufacturer is making the lower to be used with. Makes no difference to us here.

To the original question.
Yes, technically you are supposed to call in and answer their questions when you buy or build an upper to go with your lower but since most people own more than one upper (I own 3 lowers and 5 uppers) and it makes no difference to the status of the firearm since it is restricted no matter what, there really isn't much reason to bog down the CFO with silly phone calls to keep them up to date with what you are doing with your life. The wait time is long enough as is and I'm not going to bother them with crap that makes no difference. If you ever get asked you just put that upper on there yesterday.
Does anyone really feel it's practical or at all necessary to go to the range with your AR then call them if you swap from your 223 to your 300BLK upper? Then call again if you want to run your dedicated 22LR upper? Then call again to swap back to your 223 upper before heading home? That's just stupid and if any RCMP or CFO officer has an issue with that they really need to pull their head out of their butt and have a look at the big picture.

 

[kage123]

Does anyone really feel it's practical or at all necessary to go to the range with your AR then call them if you swap from your 223 to your 300BLK upper? Then call again if you want to run your dedicated 22LR upper? Then call again to swap back to your 223 upper before heading home? That's just stupid and if any RCMP or CFO officer has an issue with that they really need to pull their head out of their butt and have a look at the big picture.

No; its stupid. But most of our gun-related laws make no sense.

To the OP: Your current registration would state that it's a receiver only. Once you have your upper built and ready to go then just call them up with the with the caliber and length. It takes 5 minutes. In your case just say its 223.
This is just from my personal discussions with them over the phone, but they have told me that what they do after the change is try to match it to an existing FRT entry, they have told me that the caliber/barrel length might change the FRT since they have many different entries for the AR15 and variants. I don't know if any of that is actually true, or how they work at all, but giving them something weird like telling them its "223 Wylde" could (in my opinion) confuse the person on the other end into thinking that's an actual caliber.

There are a lot of people on here that say you don't need to inform them of the change because it doesn't change the classification of the rifle. As has been demonstrated already in this thread: that is 100% untrue.
There are also a lot of people on this form that just say keep the upper and lower apart when stored/transported (thus matching the cert as being a receiver only) and then complete the firearm every time at the range before shooting. Maybe it would work; but what happens if you forget to break it down, or if you are seen shooting a complete rifle that is not registered (improper registration is as good as not registered), or if you tell them thats what you do? They may not see it the same way you do. I would err on the side of caution and just register the rifle as 223 and leave it at that. The markings on the receiver are not important; only what the firearm actually is.

 

[smelly pete]

To add to the multi-calibre AR fun, I have one lower and three uppers. When talking to the BC CFO, I was told they just wanted to register the rifle in the largest calibre.
So, to me (in BC) OP, you have started with a registered lower(frame), that, when you add your. 223 upper to, will need to be re-registered as a. 223 rifle, and if you get a 300blk upper will need to be re-registered again.
It's pretty painless, you just need your PAL and regi number, and five minutes on the phone.