New Rifle For A New Nut

[Leuchtkafer]

I think the CZ's are the best "bang for the buck" platform. Overall well made firearms, and have plenty of modification/upgrade options available. If the factory barrel turns out to be a dud, it's very easy to replace it with a quality custom barrel. You can build a CZ to outperform the *average* Anschütz for less $.

 

[MilitaryCollectorMark]

Might try a CZ 452 varmit in 22.

Good ieda to get the yo dave trigger spring kit.

Best is to not dump a bunch of money into your first rifle, save the money and put it towards a better quality scope and ammo.

 

[grauhanen]

I think the CZ's are the best "bang for the buck" platform. Overall well made firearms, and have plenty of modification/upgrade options available. If the factory barrel turns out to be a dud, it's very easy to replace it with a quality custom barrel. You can build a CZ to outperform the *average* Anschütz for less $.

While CZ rifles are a good bang for the buck, they typically need more than a barrel to make them equal, let alone outperform the average Anschutz -- unless perhaps the comparison is to 64 action models.

CZ rifles typically require not only a custom barrel, but a trigger replacement, improved ignition, and better bedding to make them competitive with 54 action repeaters. A skilful do-it-yourselfer can do this at a price that may be less expensive than such an Anschutz. A barrel better than a random drop-in Lilja or similar barrel is preferable for best results.

Of course no modifications will allow any rifle to outshoot the ammo it's given.

 

[deadman]

If your interest is in precision/longer range shooting, my advice would be to check out a couple of threads like the 50 and 100 yd challenge threads here in the rimfire forum.

You'll be able to see what others are shooting (posters give a breakdown of their setup), and the results they get with their rigs and the ammunition. You might end up with a better idea of what you're looking for, and what you want to get out of it.

 

[Leuchtkafer]

While CZ rifles are a good bang for the buck, they typically need more than a barrel to make them equal, let alone outperform the average Anschutz -- unless perhaps the comparison is to 64 action models.

CZ rifles typically require not only a custom barrel, but a trigger replacement, improved ignition, and better bedding to make them competitive with 54 action repeaters. A skilful do-it-yourselfer can do this at a price that may be less expensive than such an Anschutz. A barrel better than a random drop-in Lilja or similar barrel is preferable for best results.

Of course no modifications will allow any rifle to outshoot the ammo it's given.

I have to disagree with that. The majority of a rifle's precision capabilities come from the barrel, the action plays a minor role in realizing the barrel's full potential. I'd give the analogy of splitting hairs, the difference between standing on the podium in a benchrest competition or not. I see there is a Cooey action on the successful 1/2" challenge list, and it is there because it received a barrel upgrade. An Anschütz barrel no less, that was originally problematic, had it's flaws identified and removed before fitting to the Cooey.

Certainly, the Anschütz action is more refined than the CZ. Tweaking such an action is like putting some wet tire shine on a Corvette compared to putting custom rims on a Honda Civic (representing the CZ). You don't need to do much to get the best out of it. However, it remains that factory barrels have their bellcurve of performance that is distinctly a notch behind custom barrels. Yes, there is some overlap and the best examples of Anschütz barrels can be competitive with custom barrels. This cannot be relied upon as it it up to luck for what random rifle one gets to purchase. Custom barrels aren't always perfect either, though the barrel maker should stand behind their product and replace a unit that is not meeting expectations.

Does a CZ strictly need bedding, trigger replacement and ignition tweaking to outperform the precision of an "average" Anschütz if given a good custom barrel? Debatable. A simple Yo-Dave kit gets the factory trigger down to a very workable level for precision shooting. The other work is preferable to do to ease the mind from wondering "what if?" any extra precision has been left on the table, but it's not likely to make a dramatic difference. The bellcurves favour a CZ with a custom barrel being capable of greater precision than a factory Anschütz. The same barrel fitted to an Anschütz action may perform marginally better than fitting it to a CZ. I doubt it is a difference that would be noticeable for events such as PRS. Anschütz still has some ejection and feeding issues, CZ magazines have an edge there and CZ ejection is extremely reliable. I'd go for a CZ platform rifle for PRS over an Anschütz. My 64 action rifles are also very sticky in the magazine release, which makes running a Mapleseed course of fire impossible for me with them. I can do it with a CZ on the other hand.

 

[Leuchtkafer]

...

 

[IvoB]

Savage Mark II (pencil barrel / iron sights) good budget friendly and you may or may not like shooting rimfire.

 

[Meroh]

If you go to tesro.ca, they have the 457 already in an XRS. The xrs is a better stock/shassis than and lss and oryx. It has chassis features with the feel of a classic stock. The oryx and lss, while cheap, arent as good as the xrs in my opinion.

If you buy a chassis from mdt, that is all you are getting. You would then drop in your barreled action

You want a rail with atleast 20 minutes of angle built into it. This allows you to zero your scope at 50 yards for example, and leave an ample amount of elevation available in your scope turret so you can dial farther out. A 50 moa rail is a better option with a 22, but you'd probably need a 34mm tubed scope to ensure you don't run out of adjustment.

Look at the Athlon midas tac or the arken sh4 or ep5 depending if you want to stretch your budget. This would get you a rig you can enjoy right away and grow into.

I disagree regarding the 20 MOA mount. A good scope with a Mil dot reticle or MOA dot reticle properly mounted so you have good natural eye to scope orientation with a proper cheek weld.

Sight in for 20 or 25 yards; try lots of different ammo. Dot reticles allow for repeatable hold over for longer range and windage allowance. Too much technology and gadgets too soon make you reliant on it instead of developing your own abilities.

Seriously, Iron sights at 20/25 yards to start will teach you more than a pile of gadgets the price of a small house will. Also a rifle that is not too heavy or cumbersome (452 or Brno 2 would be ideal) for plinking and hunting; then get a less handy PRS Rifle..

Brno/CZ old school tangent sights allow you to sight close and adjust for elevation. Start here, get good (should only take a few thousand rounds for accuracy to become instinctive out to 100 yard), and you will have lots of fun doing so.. Study and shoot other peoples rigs and see what you like before spending on something you will regret.

 

[Ribstaylor]

I too back the idea of a CZ 452, 455 or 457 as a first rifle. They are great quality for the price.

 

[ScottMisfits]

It all depends on what you want to do.

Are you staying within 100 yards or do you want to stretch it out? I have a 20moa rail on my 457. In its current configuration, I am limited to 300 yards without using holdover in my reticle. Because of the magnification needed at that distance, even hold over really only gets me another 20-30 yards or so.
That being said, 300 yards for a 22 is very much an achievable goal. But knowing what you want to do will help out in making the decision of how much angle you need. Personally, I'm looking at replacing my 20 with either a 40 or 50, and this will still allow me to get a 50 yards zero (standard for most of those in 22lr rimfire competition).

The CZ is a great starting point. Don't worry to much about the barrel, heavy or not. At this point in your shooting, the weight won't make that much of a difference. I'd worry more about the stock fit for you. If you're comfortable with it, you'll shoot better with it. Prioritizing the feel and comfort, fir now, will get you shooting better, faster. The stock can be changed, the barrel can be changed, the trigger can be changed. Change those as you learn what you want and grow as a shooter.

Pick up what will work well for you and your intended purpose right now. I bought the CZ 457 Varmint (not a Pro Varmint, although I wish I had). I bought it with the intended purpose of shooting PRS matches such as the ORPS/CRPS in production class. I'm not allowed to "upgrade" the barrel, modify the stock (I can add accessories button change the function or mounting of the stock). I have to keep the factory trigger and parts, not upgrade the spring to make a nicer pull.

It all depends on the direction that you want to go.using it as a training rifle is a fantastic idea

 

[The Gun Nut]

I'd recommend starting with a rifle that will perform well right out of the box and encourage you to chase better and better groups. A CZ 457 or 455 would be a great starter rifle. If you can find a 452, even better. From there you could save your pennies a bit longer and get an Anschutz or a Sako.

If you want something you can plink away the afternoon with and you like to tinker and accessorize, the old Ruger 10/22 is loads of fun, but don't expect too much from it in the accuracy department.

For the ruger or other semi-auto, any old rimfire scope will do (Bushnell, Cabelas, etc), for the CZ/Sako/Anschutz, you might want to spend a few hundred more on a Leupold - then you have a rifle and a scope that you'll enjoy for a lifetime.

Any CZ/Brno is a good place to start; their are others that are great too, but these set the standard.

Brno 2, 452, 455, 457; stay away from heave bull barrels; maybe great for long range accuracy for more advanced shooters, but most of us are hard pressed to see much difference with good middle of the road ammo, and the lighter barrel profiles make it a lot more versatile. I also own a Brno Mod 4; super heavy target rifle, and great for bench rest, but if you were to carry it in the field, after the first hour, you would be able to cut washers off of your arse, LOL.

Agree with this and the advice about the rifle - my personal opinion is to start with a "basic" CZ (varmint, American, etc). You can always get a chassis later as you hone in on what you prefer and sell the factory stock on whatever version rifle you bought initially. Save the $$$ for now.

I think the CZ's are the best "bang for the buck" platform. Overall well made firearms, and have plenty of modification/upgrade options available. If the factory barrel turns out to be a dud, it's very easy to replace it with a quality custom barrel. You can build a CZ to outperform the *average* Anschütz for less $.

Might try a CZ 452 varmit in 22.

Good ieda to get the yo dave trigger spring kit.

Best is to not dump a bunch of money into your first rifle, save the money and put it towards a better quality scope and ammo.

Thank you gentlemen for your suggestions. I believe most of you agree that 452, 455, or 457 is the way to go. Out of these 3 models, as I understand, 457 is the successor adding features like replaceable barrel, redesigned safety, better bedding, etc. I believe the only disagreement is on the variation.

If you go to tesro.ca, they have the 457 already in an XRS. The xrs is a better stock/shassis than and lss and oryx. It has chassis features with the feel of a classic stock. The oryx and lss, while cheap, arent as good as the xrs in my opinion.

If you buy a chassis from mdt, that is all you are getting. You would then drop in your barreled action

You want a rail with atleast 20 minutes of angle built into it. This allows you to zero your scope at 50 yards for example, and leave an ample amount of elevation available in your scope turret so you can dial farther out. A 50 moa rail is a better option with a 22, but you'd probably need a 34mm tubed scope to ensure you don't run out of adjustment.

Look at the Athlon midas tac or the arken sh4 or ep5 depending if you want to stretch your budget. This would get you a rig you can enjoy right away and grow into.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I read a little bit about what you described here and I do agree that I need a rail with 20 to 50 moa depending on the range I want to be shooting at. As for chassis, I will look for one in EE or tesro.ca and depending on the price, I will go with either that or the stock model. I won't lie, I love wood and it hurts me that I'll have to sacrifice accuracy for it!

If your interest is in precision/longer range shooting, my advice would be to check out a couple of threads like the 50 and 100 yd challenge threads here in the rimfire forum.

You'll be able to see what others are shooting (posters give a breakdown of their setup), and the results they get with their rigs and the ammunition. You might end up with a better idea of what you're looking for, and what you want to get out of it.

Thank you for your suggestion. Great idea! I will check it out.

 

[The Gun Nut]

I'm really impressed by how much you guys helped me with my decision and wanted to thank each and every one of you for taking the time and sharing your knowledge with a newbie. I truly appreciate it!

 

[boxhitch]

I'm left wondering when .22 shooting went all high-brow
I bet 90% of 22 shooters never consider dialing a scope, let alone ammo testing for accuracy
When did plinkers sink so low

we shot 22s for years with never sliding the ladder ramp on the irons, thousands of can and rocks and grouse and rabbits and magpies

 

[kamlooky]

Hayya Bawxhich, Mr H and me did the ammo kerpow tests.
Nutt’in but fun.
Interesting results from about 8 diffrunt 22’s.

Don’t know iff’in I have any photos.
Toesheebuh bit the bullitt.

 

[The Gun Nut]

I'm left wondering when .22 shooting went all high-brow
I bet 90% of 22 shooters never consider dialing a scope, let alone ammo testing for accuracy
When did plinkers sink so low

we shot 22s for years with never sliding the ladder ramp on the irons, thousands of can and rocks and grouse and rabbits and magpies

As long as you have fun there is nothing wrong with that at all!

I really enjoyed being a "sniper" in games when I was a teenager. I primarily want to learn the fundamentals of long-range shooting, and .22 is a relatively cheap training platform for me. I believe that's why these gentlemen suggested more accurate rifles to me.

I'd love to hear your suggestions too tho!

 

[ScottMisfits]

I'm left wondering when .22 shooting went all high-brow
I bet 90% of 22 shooters never consider dialing a scope, let alone ammo testing for accuracy
When did plinkers sink so low

we shot 22s for years with never sliding the ladder ramp on the irons, thousands of can and rocks and grouse and rabbits and magpies

It's still there. There is a large contigent of people still doing just what you have described. Just like anything else out there, there are those that want to do more, go bigger, go longer, go smaller targets, etc. There is nothing wrong with either one. I have 22's set up for gopher hunting and shorter range shooting, and a competition rig. People going out and enjoying what they do. What's wrong with either way of doing it?

 

[a j cave]

I have minute of gopher guns and minute of x-ring guns. Fun anytime I can shoot.

 

[Kasta]

CZ 457 Jaguar was my first gun, chose it because it had an ironsight and that was essential for me. Absolutely love it, would recommend it to anyone.

 

[grauhanen]

There are 4 successful 1/4 club shooters. The first was a hot rod CZ, the 2nd and 3rd were high end benchrest actions, the fourth you, who took many Anschütz rifles to find a capable example. Know when you're speaking out of your league.

"Speaking out of your league"? Unless you are the now-banned Rabid posting under an alias (and strangely forgetful of the origin of the 1/4" club), you haven't posted a 1/4" club worthy target and may yourself be out of your league. If I recall correctly, except for a couple of target images in a non-target related thread, you haven't posted any targets demonstrating expertise.

Nonetheless, that's not the issue. It's acceptable to disagree with my remarks about where a CZ rifle has room for improvement. There's nothing wrong with that. But you didn't limit yourself to disagreement. You made presumptuous claims. Your suggestion that I needed many Anschutz rifles to find a capable example is completely mistaken and illogical.

While I've had many rifles, it doesn't follow that any or all of them were used to try to make the 1/4 inch club. As I recall, this "club" was proposed by Rabid and begun in about 2019 when he first did it. This was long after I began posting entries in the 1/2"challenge. The majority of my 1/2" challenge entries came before there a 1/4" club to which to aspire.

Furthermore, many of my entries were shot with entry level varieties of match ammo and random lots of Center X. You may be aware that entry level match ammos are not suitable for especially good results, and certainly not for the 1/4" club. Random lots of CX are not especially apt to bring 1/4" club-level achievement. I was aware of the limitations of these ammos, preferring in those days to shoot SK ammos rather than more expensive upper tier varieties.

In short, shooters shouldn't expect to make the 1/4" club with such ammo. If you didn't know this, now you do, too.

My 1913 Anschutz rifle used for the 1/4" challenge entry isn't anything other than an average-for-Anschutz rifle. My 50-year-old 1973-made 1411 Anschutz with the original barrel shoots just as well as the newer 1913. In fact, it edges the 1913 for the best 100 yard results, on which I've been focussing for several years. Nevertheless, the 1913 is the only rifle I've used to attempt with serious effort to achieve the 1/4" club. I haven't seriously tried with the 1411. For several years and until recently, I've had two rimfire rifles, the 1913 and 1411.

Don't mistake the freedom to disagree with someone as grounds for making unfounded claims and innuendo.

 

[Meroh]

As long as you have fun there is nothing wrong with that at all!

I really enjoyed being a "sniper" in games when I was a teenager. I primarily want to learn the fundamentals of long-range shooting, and .22 is a relatively cheap training platform for me. I believe that's why these gentlemen suggested more accurate rifles to me.

I'd love to hear your suggestions too tho!

Below is the rifle I use for long range fun. 1953 Brno Mod 4 I bought it as a basket case; sourced bits and pieces; restored the stock to it's original length. I have been working with it a little; had the scope on yesterday shooting 100 yards. 4 different ammos (old Remington Target made by Eley; Norma Tac22, CCI Std. and Aguila Super Extra lead), and so far most groups <2" I do love this rifle.