New SAM Shipment Received!

Ok, those prices are a little nicer. But I still find it very curious that SAM feel making the stainless units "finished nice" make them too costly...I mean, is their finish any better than that of Ruger's SR1911 ? Polishing/finishing would be manual labor right? And labour costs would be significantly lower in the Phillipines than say American employees at Ruger and Remington...I would think...right?

Look, I understand that my comments won't likely have any real impact on the business decisions of a gun company on the other side of the world...but frankly I was really looking forward to buying 2 or three SAM stainless 1911's at the earlier "introductory" pricing. I had my eye on a 5" stainless 9mm, and then a Thunderbolt Stainless .45acp, and maybe a third.

BTW: was the stainless models have a change in the type of finishing texture on them? Beaded vs "brushed" or something? Is that what's accounting for the difference in price? 'Cause frankly, I didn't mind either finish, they were fine by me...At $600 Canadian I'm not expecting a finish like that of a Kimber Eclipse, or a Colt Python! I'd just want it to look consistent and decent. Bead blast is just fine with me.

I'd have been fine with it, because I was thinking of doing my own polishing on it...a "project gun" like so many do with their Norc 1911's, but starting with stainless! There's a picture of a Canadian owned Taurus stainless 1911 that had some components polished to a very reflective sheen, while the rest was...um, bead blasted I think. His results were very nice. Another guy polished his Norc 1911 carbon steel, completely removing all traces of bluing, right down to the bare steel, and polished it so bright it was like a mirror! Beautiful...but I'd want to have the steel be stainless so it doesn't rust...for me the main appeal of the SAM offerings.

Part of the reason I bring this up is because there's just not many stainless 9mm 1911's in the mid to lower price range, and I can't afford to feed a .45 any time soon. Frankly, I think that if SAM were to keep selling stainless 1911's here at the earlier price point, I suspect they would gain in popularity dramatically over the next couple of years...something akin to how the VZ-58 just took off like wildfire in the Canadian market! If they did that, five years from now people on CGN might be asking "Norinco used to make 1911's? Really? I didn't known that!" :D
 
RickR1100 said:
Ok, those prices are a little nicer. But I still find it very curious that SAM feel making the stainless units "finished nice" make them too costly...I mean, is their finish any better than that of Ruger's SR1911 ? Polishing/finishing would be manual labor right? And labour costs would be significantly lower in the Phillipines than say American employees at Ruger and Remington...I would think...right?

Look, I understand that my comments won't likely have any real impact on the business decisions of a gun company on the other side of the world...but frankly I was really looking forward to buying 2 or three SAM stainless 1911's at the earlier "introductory" pricing. I had my eye on a 5" stainless 9mm, and then a Thunderbolt Stainless .45acp, and maybe a third.

BTW: was the stainless models have a change in the type of finishing texture on them? Beaded vs "brushed" or something? Is that what's accounting for the difference in price? 'Cause frankly, I didn't mind either finish, they were fine by me...At $600 Canadian I'm not expecting a finish like that of a Kimber Eclipse, or a Colt Python! I'd just want it to look consistent and decent. Bead blast is just fine with me.

I'd have been fine with it, because I was thinking of doing my own polishing on it...a "project gun" like so many do with their Norc 1911's, but starting with stainless! There's a picture of a Canadian owned Taurus stainless 1911 that had some components polished to a very reflective sheen, while the rest was...um, bead blasted I think. His results were very nice. Another guy polished his Norc 1911 carbon steel, completely removing all traces of bluing, right down to the bare steel, and polished it so bright it was like a mirror! Beautiful...but I'd want to have the steel be stainless so it doesn't rust...for me the main appeal of the SAM offerings.

Part of the reason I bring this up is because there's just not many stainless 9mm 1911's in the mid to lower price range, and I can't afford to feed a .45 any time soon. Frankly, I think that if SAM were to keep selling stainless 1911's here at the earlier price point, I suspect they would gain in popularity dramatically over the next couple of years...something akin to how the VZ-58 just took off like wildfire in the Canadian market! If they did that, five years from now people on CGN might be asking "Norinco used to make 1911's? Really? I didn't known that!" :D
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This is the notification from SAM that we received regarding Stainless models. If we can not keep the price down to what you the consumer are prepared to pay there is no point us pushing SAM for stainless models, so at this time the stainless SAM pistols that we have in stock will be the last. Take note that when I corrected the price list this morning the Stainless Thunderbolt dropped below the old (last years) price!

Dear John & Pat:

The stainless raw materials for the stainless pistols you just received was from Korea and was well within spec, unfortunately we had trouble with our USA supplier in the past.

Due to the difficulty encountered with our frame castings, the delays involved and lengthy production process(s) we have made a decision to discontinue the sale of stainless pistols to ALL customers in North America including you and our US based customers.

Moving forward we are concentrating on what we do well; 1911's made of 4140 in black finish as well as some new ultra compact models with 4140 uppers/bbls and black anodized T6 aluminum frames.

Rest assured your recent shipment of stainless pistols was by far the highest quality we have ever delivered but the process is just too much of a burden on production.

Thank you so much John & Pat for your patience as we struggled to fill the order and we look forward to your next order of 4140 guns.
 
Ah, I see now! yea, that makes sense now...it's not just one single factor, but rather several all conspiring to make it a logistical/production headache! Gotcha. Too bad though...
 
Mr Wolverine said:
This is the notification from SAM that we received regarding Stainless models. If we can not keep the price down to what you the consumer are prepared to pay there is no point us pushing SAM for stainless models, so at this time the stainless SAM pistols that we have in stock will be the last. Take note that when I corrected the price list this morning the Stainless Thunderbolt dropped below the old (last years) price!

Dear John & Pat:

The stainless raw materials for the stainless pistols you just received was from Korea and was well within spec, unfortunately we had trouble with our USA supplier in the past.

Due to the difficulty encountered with our frame castings, the delays involved and lengthy production process(s) we have made a decision to discontinue the sale of stainless pistols to ALL customers in North America including you and our US based customers.

Moving forward we are concentrating on what we do well; 1911's made of 4140 in black finish as well as some new ultra compact models with 4140 uppers/bbls and black anodized T6 aluminum frames.

Rest assured your recent shipment of stainless pistols was by far the highest quality we have ever delivered but the process is just too much of a burden on production.

Thank you so much John & Pat for your patience as we struggled to fill the order and we look forward to your next order of 4140 guns.
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I was standing in line at the 2013 SHOT Show to meet R. Lee Ermey at the Glock display. While waiting I got into a conversation with the fellow standing behind me who turned out to be an American who works for SAM in the Philippines in their quality control dept. I was very interested in talking to him because just by coincidence I was waiting for my stainless 45 SAM Commander to arrive from Wolverine (in fact it was in transit during the show). He told me that the reason SAM went to the polished sides on the newer guns was because the frames were cast and the slides weren't that sometimes there were colour variations between the two which didn't look good cosmetically. The polishing minimized the colour variations (incidentally the bead blasted slides & frames on both my 45 and 9mm stainless SAM Commanders match perfectly).

He also told me that they got their stainless steel from South Korea so I'm not sure how the SAM comment about inferior US stainless is applicable as they obviously aren't using it now anyway.

As for SAM's inference that they are deleting the SS models because of "...difficulty encountered with our frame castings..." and concentating on the 4140 chrome moly models because they are more in demand really doesn't pass the smell test. They have a CNC facility and a skilled work force just like Ruger. At the 2012 SHOT Show the fellow I talked to from Ruger said they were adding a 3rd shift just to keep up with the orders of SR1911s so obviously there is a huge demand for reasonably SS 1911s. I haven't even seen any of the new SR1911 Commanders in Canada yet and I'm guessing it's because Ruger can't even keep up with the gov't size gun orders, let alone fill the demand for the new Commanders.

As someone has pointed out earlier, labour costs are far lower in the Philippines than in the US (and I'll bet stainless steel from South Korea is a lot cheaper than US stainless too) yet Ruger can produce their SR1911s in the low $700 range but SAM seems to be claiming they can't make a go of it at the current prices. Something's just not adding up here.

I must strenuously point out that none of this is intended as a knock on John Hipwell/Wolverine for whom I have the greatest respect as a dealer.

I do however, think that there is something fishy going on vis a vis the SS SAMs. Maybe SAM isn't happy with their profit margins. Maybe the SS guns are more labour intensive (although the price difference between comparable blue and SS models running in the $100-$130 range should more than cover that cost).

I'm not a businessman nor do I play one on TV but I really believe that these price jumps combined with dropping SS models from their product lineup is going to really put a dent in SAMs sales in Canada (and the US). With the possible exception of the SAM Military 1911 .45 ACP they have completely relinquished the bottom end of the 1911 price market to Norinco and their upper end versions now have to compete with the Ruger SR1911, Remington R1, STI Spartan and others and I can't see that boding well for them.

I really hate to see this happen as they were filling a very large and important niche between the Norincos at the bottom and almost everyone else in the mid to high price range. And that's a shame.
 
He also told me that they got their stainless steel from South Korea so I'm not sure how the SAM comment about inferior US stainless is applicable as they obviously aren't using it now anyway.
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The stainless raw materials for the stainless pistols you just received was from Korea and was well within spec, unfortunately we had trouble with our USA supplier in the past.
Click to expand...

Maybe the "trouble" was not due to quality but instead export or supply issues?
 
The real truth is I wanted one of their 9mm enhanced stainless commanders and now I'm waffling.......:(
 
Can-down said:
The real truth is I wanted one of their 9mm enhanced stainless commanders and now I'm waffling.......:(
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I have one and am happy with it. Luckily for me I bought it before the price jump.

I believe that when Ruger catches up with the demand for their 45 SR1911s in gov't. & Commander models they will eventually start making them in 9mm as well. However, with current market conditions that could be quite a ways down the road time wise.

As long as the price is within the current SR1911 range it would be hard for the SAMs to compete.
 
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