New shotgun defense loads

LA cowboy

LA cowboy

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On the edge of my sanity
I have been wanting to get some thoughts on the new Shotgun Extreme Defense Loads that have been quietly coming to the market place. I now see that Federal and Winchester offer new wildcat defense loads.
So what is better? 9 pellets of 00 buck or 3 pellets on top of a 12 guage slug, or 3 flat wafers surrounded with #4 buck? I am sort of leaning towards the 3 buck on top of the full slug... thoughts?
 
Buy a bunch of the stuff that interests you, then go out and pattern it at realistic ranges and see which product is the most effective from your barrel. You might also devise targets which allow you to compare the terminal effectiveness of the new loads with what you've been shooting up till now. Trying new stuff out is half the fun of being in this game.
 
LA cowboy said:
I have been wanting to get some thoughts on the new Shotgun Extreme Defense Loads that have been quietly coming to the market place. I now see that Federal and Winchester offer new wildcat defense loads.
So what is better? 9 pellets of 00 buck or 3 pellets on top of a 12 guage slug, or 3 flat wafers surrounded with #4 buck? I am sort of leaning towards the 3 buck on top of the full slug... thoughts?
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't like the idea of the hybrid 3 buck on top of a slug.

To me, shotgun defense loads are dictated distance. Anything further than 25 yards (less in a stressful situation) would warrant a slug. Those 3 bucks become a liability at further ranges. If you are closer than 25, why not go full buckshot. If you aren't sure, slug is the way to go since it would create all sorts of nasty up to 100 yards.
 
I don't like the buck+slug either. Its an either or proposition for me. Slugs for outdoors in the bush if bears are the issue. 00 Buck if 2 legged predators are the potential issue. If I want to shoot a slug at a bear those 3 pellets are a waste and I'd rather have the weight in the slug.

This product is like putting cough syrup in your coffee. Cough syrup is effective and coffee tastes good, so putting them together must be a good idea right?
 
Go with buckshot for indoor type distances and slugs for everything else. Stay away from gimmicks.
 
At 25m from my 18.5" barrel with a ported Carlson light modified choke, the Winchester PDX (3 buck 1 slug) shoots amazingly.

Every shot paterns in an equilateral triangle with sides that are about 5 inches long. The slug lands dead centre in the middle of that triangle.

After 40m, the triangle gets to be about a 8 inches a side, and then 12" per side at 50m. This is about the maximum range where you are going to get the full potential out of this round. Beyond this range you are just wasting the 00 pellets and might as well be using a slug.

Within 40m I find this shell hard to beat.

My wife has some if the PDX ammo for her .410 too. That ammo has the little lead cookies in it. Its confidence inspiring for her. Seems like a pretty awesome Judge or Snakeslayer cartridge to me too. Not usefull on large game. But other critters are fair game with this.

Devastating is the first word that comes to mind.
 
I like the Idea of the PDX1 shell 3 00 Buckshoot plus a slug

but look at the price of those right now

17.99 for only 10

for that price you can get 15 slug shell or 15x00 Buckshoot shell

I personaly buy both seperatly and put both on my shellholder

3 slug and 3 buckshoot at least you can choose what you want

and on my 25 shell sling, I put 5 slug, 5 buckshoot, 5BB, 10 small game shell

this is the reason why I like a shotgun so much you have variety of shell for a variety of situation...
 
Sounds like a gimmick. #00 Buck and Slugs are all you need.

Now used batteries and a stack of pennies would be a good load.

Also a Chinese Hot Mustard "less than lethal" but "more than spicy" load would be good.
 
BabySeal said:
At 25m from my 18.5" barrel with a ported Carlson light modified choke, the Winchester PDX (3 buck 1 slug) shoots amazingly.

Every shot paterns in an equilateral triangle with sides that are about 5 inches long. The slug lands dead centre in the middle of that triangle.

After 40m, the triangle gets to be about a 8 inches a side, and then 12" per side at 50m. This is about the maximum range where you are going to get the full potential out of this round. Beyond this range you are just wasting the 00 pellets and might as well be using a slug.

Within 40m I find this shell hard to beat.

My wife has some if the PDX ammo for her .410 too. That ammo has the little lead cookies in it. Its confidence inspiring for her. Seems like a pretty awesome Judge or Snakeslayer cartridge to me too. Not usefull on large game. But other critters are fair game with this.

Devastating is the first word that comes to mind.
Click to expand...

This is good stuff. Thanks. If the 3 buck and slug pattern consistently the same then it is worth a serious look. The slug should shoot point of aim and the 3 bucks should move out from point of aim. If it is the same each shot... it is what I am looking for,,, I think I want the stopping power of the slug but the forgiveness of the buck. Make sense? If I am a little off taget on my slug shot I can still hit meat with one of the satallite bucks. I guess I will have to buy and do some pattern testing at the range.

I also found another offering, this one is from Centurian Multi defense load.. it is a .650 cal ball with 6 bucks surrounding it. I beleive that is close to 20ga slug (.650) might as well grab a box of them also to pattern.
 
LA cowboy said:
I also found another offering, this one is from Centurian Multi defense load.. it is a .650 cal ball with 6 bucks surrounding it. I beleive that is close to 20ga slug (.650) might as well grab a box of them also to pattern.
Click to expand...

I have heard that stuff is devastating, but have never been able to get my hands on any.

The PDX does pattern very consistently. It is a buffered load and even the 00 pellets are plated and very uniform. It is a premium shell and that is why the cost is high. But it is worth it. Its my go to stuff.

I don't worry about grabbing for the right shells anymore. It is not better than a slug at range, nor is it better than a load of nine 00 pellets in close. But it is a slug at range and BOTH a slug and buckshot in close.


*On a different note, I saw something the other day that just came to mind. There is diamond shapped shot now that allows more shot to fit because there are no air gaps between the pellets as with round shot. I wonder how that works in 000...
That said, its not like I am writting off traditional loads. This is a low recoil personal defense shell. It is purpose built.
 
00Buck said:
Sounds like a gimmick. #00 Buck and Slugs are all you need.

Now used batteries and a stack of pennies would be a good load.

Also a Chinese Hot Mustard "less than lethal" but "more than spicy" load would be good.
Click to expand...


Ha! That is going to be my next barbecue load...just hang the meat 30 feet away :D

The Idea about the slug and 00 load is not that new...over a 100 years ago in the civil war they did the same thing in the spencers and called their load "buck'n ball"

personally,I tend to say either or...If it would give that much advance,this load would have been available since the very beginning of shells.
 
Coachgun67 said:
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Ha! That is going to be my next barbecue load...just hang the meat 30 feet away :D

The Idea about the slug and 00 load is not that new...over a 100 years ago in the civil war they did the same thing in the spencers and called their load "buck'n ball"

personally,I tend to say either or...If it would give that much advance,this load would have been available since the very beginning of shells.
Click to expand...

Factually incorrect - the Spencer was a rimfire with a (mostly) copper case in caliber 56-56 Spencer. The case is far to small to hold any shot at all, let alone both buck and ball...
 
Buck-and-ball was used in smoothbore muskets. In the context of a group of soldiers in tight formation firing inaccurate guns in volleys at another formation of soldiers doing the same, this loading might have made sense. For the individual, not so much. Compared with a regular slug load, the recoil will be greater (which means slower follow-up shots) for minimal improvement in terminal effect. Besides which, if one has to take a long shot, might not stray pellets be a concern? If close range multi-projectile capability is desired, regular 00 buck loads offer greater combined frontal area, and thus wounding capacity.
 
mudgunner49 said:
Factually incorrect - the Spencer was a rimfire with a (mostly) copper case in caliber 56-56 Spencer. The case is far to small to hold any shot at all, let alone both buck and ball...
Click to expand...

Thanks for setting that straight,could have been a sharps then? Anyhow,I know it was something that also used paper cartridges...don't have the name right now,would have to dig out my old army history book :D
 
It would in all likelihood have been something smoothbore, a musket perhaps. Possibly used in some of the larger bore rifled muskets of the Civil War era but most certainly in the muskets, both flintlock and percussion that pre-dated the 1850 and '60's. For instance, there was mention of ball and shot loads used in the shotguns popular with some of the irregulars...


blake
 
I'm making my own. I just buy 5 different sizes of shot and mix them all together. Weigh out an ounce give or take and load em up. Now I'm covered for dragonfly up to ostrich with just one load. All these stupid companies that make specific loads are just wasting your money. Make your own load and don't look back.
 
tjhaile said:
Buck-and-ball was used in smoothbore muskets. In the context of a group of soldiers in tight formation firing inaccurate guns in volleys at another formation of soldiers doing the same, this loading might have made sense. For the individual, not so much. Compared with a regular slug load, the recoil will be greater (which means slower follow-up shots) for minimal improvement in terminal effect. Besides which, if one has to take a long shot, might not stray pellets be a concern? If close range multi-projectile capability is desired, regular 00 buck loads offer greater combined frontal area, and thus wounding capacity.
Click to expand...

I have a family story about a Mrs. that was taught to load "buck and ball in the bess" for a troublesome wolf that was coming far too close to the house{circa 1813} It was widely used for more than volley type military fire. It has been a hunting round {perhaps for those not that familiar with the firearm} and as a defence round for, well 199yrs in my families case :D
 
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