New Sidearms for my employees?
- Thread starter Strangeday
- Start date
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
The gun to get is the SIG Pro SP2022.
Any gun with an aluminum frame is going to get scratched badly within a few years. West Mids Police Berettas I've seen don't even look like guns anymore the frames are so worn.
No to the Glock, doesn't fit everyone's hands, has those stupid plastic sights, although they are cheap. Also in .40 S&W not anywhere near as comfortable to shoot as the SIG Pro.
I think it's been established that the Walthers aren't that durable and they also have plastic sights. Plus they cost more, why pay more for something not as good?
The S&W M&P comes in a close second, I think the SIG Pro is a more proven design though. The SIG Pro does have interchangeable grips as well. I don't like the metal mag on plastic mag release on the M&P. That's a nit pick but the SIG Pro doesn't have that problem. Eventually the mag release wears out.
The XD is an okay gun but once again it doesn't have the grip that can be fiddled with and it's a bit of an unknown quantity for security use, does any LE agency use them outside of Croatia?
The only downside to the SIG Pro I have found is the trigger pull isn't quite as good as on a P226, but if you've ever used a P226 that has been abused on a day to day basis the SIG Pro will make more sense, they just last longer and don't break small parts as much.
Your main problem with the SIG Pro is getting them in Canada.
Any gun with an aluminum frame is going to get scratched badly within a few years. West Mids Police Berettas I've seen don't even look like guns anymore the frames are so worn.
No to the Glock, doesn't fit everyone's hands, has those stupid plastic sights, although they are cheap. Also in .40 S&W not anywhere near as comfortable to shoot as the SIG Pro.
I think it's been established that the Walthers aren't that durable and they also have plastic sights. Plus they cost more, why pay more for something not as good?
The S&W M&P comes in a close second, I think the SIG Pro is a more proven design though. The SIG Pro does have interchangeable grips as well. I don't like the metal mag on plastic mag release on the M&P. That's a nit pick but the SIG Pro doesn't have that problem. Eventually the mag release wears out.
The XD is an okay gun but once again it doesn't have the grip that can be fiddled with and it's a bit of an unknown quantity for security use, does any LE agency use them outside of Croatia?
The only downside to the SIG Pro I have found is the trigger pull isn't quite as good as on a P226, but if you've ever used a P226 that has been abused on a day to day basis the SIG Pro will make more sense, they just last longer and don't break small parts as much.
Your main problem with the SIG Pro is getting them in Canada.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
No they're not, it's a 9mm with a bigger hole down the barrel, that's why they're not a good idea. I know my 96 was dire and Slavex has reported similar problems.
Looking at it from two sides, business and shooter, here's how I see it. The Smith and the Glock are less expensive otherwise my local PD wouldn't be carrying Glocks, and I wouldn't own a Smith. The Glock has a long proven record of reliability. The Smith is new, but except for the mag issues should be as reliable. The mag release issue doesn't even require an armourer to fix (get some spares thrown in with the deal) and the mag issue can be fixed using the all steel mags (you should be okay to get those). The Smith can be made to fit anyones hand, the Glock requires practice for many people to shoot well due to it's grip size/shape. The trigger on the Glock is on average not as good as the Smith. The Smith has a magazine safety - I know people hate these but they can save your *ss if you're in close and wrestling for control with a meth freak, just pop the mag and give the gun to him, and while he's trying to figure things out kick his sorry *ss. The Smith is safer to strip, no trigger pulling involved. The Smith is ambidextrous, the Glock less so. I have no experience with the Sig Pro, the Springfield (how's the QC with those?), I would only give a Beretta to people with really big hands, who I didn't like much. The Walther has something of an accuracy issue (this second hand) and is quite costly. Thanks for opening this up, it really makes for an interesting exercise - but I'm glad I don't have to do it for real.
PS. Is the switch necessary at all, are your guys (gals) capable of "max-performing" a revolver? - and would they be as well served with an 8 shot revolver? I say this because the RCMP sited 'firepower disparity' without ever training staff to use speedloaders, never mind speed loading.
PS. Is the switch necessary at all, are your guys (gals) capable of "max-performing" a revolver? - and would they be as well served with an 8 shot revolver? I say this because the RCMP sited 'firepower disparity' without ever training staff to use speedloaders, never mind speed loading.
I said 90two not 96FSOriginally Posted by IM_Lugger
If you want a DA/SA .40 than IMO Beretta 90two is a way to go IMO;
* built for .40
No they're not, it's a 9mm with a bigger hole down the barrel, that's why they're not a good idea. I know my 96 was dire and Slavex has reported similar problems.
90two has a recoil buffer, heavier (redesigned brigadier) slide and I'm pretty sure it did first came out in .40. Beretta discontinued the 96 line shortly after 90two came out. Also Redleg (or was it someone else from TSE) said they are getting "high" round counts on their rental 90two's...
btw how is a G22 or P226 .40 be different?
Last edited:
huh?
I took an RCMP pistol course in '90 using .38's and speedloaders.
Seemed to be part of the standard course.
(we were the "students" for a RCMP firearms instructor course, final test for the instructor candidates was instructing us)
I took an RCMP pistol course in '90 using .38's and speedloaders.
Seemed to be part of the standard course.
(we were the "students" for a RCMP firearms instructor course, final test for the instructor candidates was instructing us)
Spectrum7V1R
CGN Regular
- Location
- Regina Sask
Is that poll a joke or just a test?
Obviously the only real choice is SIG, I love my GLOCK but if my life was on the line I'd go with the sure thing.
Colin
Obviously the only real choice is SIG, I love my GLOCK but if my life was on the line I'd go with the sure thing.
Colin
Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
glock or M&P. Simple operation, good price/quality ratio, light on hip and fit most hands......
Sig Pros blow goats. If you want a Sig, stick to the P226.
I'd personally stick to 9mm, and take the money you save in ammo and make them practice.
S&W are really out flogging their M&P -the reason they are currently so cheap.
Considering the end user, my first pick would be Glock17 followed by the M&P.
I'd personally stick to 9mm, and take the money you save in ammo and make them practice.
S&W are really out flogging their M&P -the reason they are currently so cheap.
Considering the end user, my first pick would be Glock17 followed by the M&P.
yes, after they had decided on, and then undecided on Berettas, and before they finally settled on the Smiths. This period lasted almost a year.
BTW they were actually going to issue both double and single stack Beretta 92's, to the point of well, this is what we'll buy, 'til someone said that it would suck if one of each was in a car involved in a bad scene. Go figure.That was late 80's-early '90s the argument over revolver/pistol was earlier.
Last edited:
I would say XD-40 ... as seeing how many rounds go in a week at an indoor range - Glocks - tend to screw up a lot, MP tends to jam quite a bit - the XD and the beretta's seem to be the MOST reliable especially being shot quite a lot. However there is a problem that my friend has started noticing on the XDs not sure what the part is called but it wears out quite easily, havn't checked my personal XD that has 1000+ rounds through it but the ones one the range and a couple others have checked theirs and has this wear on it.
That is from my experience. Though I would still go XD... Though since I assume your boys will be using this in Iraq i'm not sure how sand will affect it.
That is from my experience. Though I would still go XD... Though since I assume your boys will be using this in Iraq i'm not sure how sand will affect it.
b-wingpilot
CGN Regular
- Location
- Sherwood Park
Not true. XDs, M&Ps, Beretta 92s/90-2s and Glock 17/22s are the first to break down. Although Glocks are very easily fixed and they keep soldiering on. CZ-75s/85s and Baby Eagles last a bit longer. The absolute most reliable pistols we have seen are HK USPs and Sig p226s. The USPs did last a bit longer that the 226 we had.
The XD is a really bad choice. If the pistol is going to be playing in the sand, then I say use what is working (relatively) and go with a Glock, probably the G19. Its very simple, economical, and combat proven.
This is a tougher question than you might think at first.There is a lot more
involved than "this is my favorite so it should be yours to".
Your spending your own money not the city's or what ever.
I have some questions first.
How much training will they receive and will they have to qualify on a regular basis.
The reason I ask is will the guard be instructed on and then trained to the point of compentancy on Sympathetic reaction.While I love the glock
for its ease of use it is also the reason that I would hesitate to issue to
lightly or improperly trained users.There is a reason that a lot Police dept
issue DAO pistols(civli liability and political correctness is only part of it).
My Personal choices are 1911 or Glock because of the ease of use with one hand.Dont forget he /she would probably be holding on the the money bag with his non dominant hand.But that would be for someone with proper training.
Not just basic use on saftey,holstering,basic marksmenship.
You may want to look at some of the DAO options.any way
good luck with this.
involved than "this is my favorite so it should be yours to".
Your spending your own money not the city's or what ever.
I have some questions first.
How much training will they receive and will they have to qualify on a regular basis.
The reason I ask is will the guard be instructed on and then trained to the point of compentancy on Sympathetic reaction.While I love the glock
for its ease of use it is also the reason that I would hesitate to issue to
lightly or improperly trained users.There is a reason that a lot Police dept
issue DAO pistols(civli liability and political correctness is only part of it).
My Personal choices are 1911 or Glock because of the ease of use with one hand.Dont forget he /she would probably be holding on the the money bag with his non dominant hand.But that would be for someone with proper training.
Not just basic use on saftey,holstering,basic marksmenship.
You may want to look at some of the DAO options.any way
good luck with this.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
I said 90two not 96FS
90two has a recoil buffer, heavier (redesigned brigadier) slide and I'm pretty sure it did first came out in .40. Beretta discontinued the 96 line shortly after 90two came out. Also Redleg (or was it someone else from TSE) said they are getting "high" round counts on their rental 90two's...
btw how is a G22 or P226 .40 be different?
I didn't recommend either of those either! The SIG Pro was made as a .40 then scaled down to 9mm. Another reason to buy those.
The .40 90-Two is just a cosmetically altered 96, the basic gun is still the same. The only real advantage is the buffer in the frame, but that wasn't the problem with the 96 (well it was, if you kept it long enough), the slide velocity is too high and it affects accuracy. I can't see anything in the 90-Two that fixes that problem.
In any event I still wouldn't get it even if that problem was fixed, it's too big. There are plenty of smaller guns around now. To have a gun that big with only a 12-round mag doesn't make sense. Although it is restricted rather than 12(6) so that might save some paperwork.
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
