New Sidearms for my employees?

What handgun should I choose

  • Smith and Wesson M&P

    Votes: 99 23.5%

  • Glock

    Votes: 144 34.2%

  • Beretta

    Votes: 15 3.6%

  • Sig Sauer

    Votes: 132 31.4%

  • Sprinfield

    Votes: 23 5.5%

  • Walther

    Votes: 8 1.9%
  • Total voters
    421
  • Poll closed .
mudgunner49 said:
...except the ammo is prohibited - making it a (probably not so effective) impact weapon...


blake
Click to expand...

AP ammo is prohib for civilian, not sure if it applies in that case...

The way I see it, shot placement is the bigger issue, those 5.7 are said to be pretty accurate, recoil is as low as it gets and range is greatly increased, not to mention mag capacity of 20rds/30rds with extended mags (not sure if the 10rds law applies to security).
If I remember correctly those guys cannot be issued rifle, FNH 5.7 is a "pocket rifle"... that is why I suggested it.
 
Ix said:
AP ammo is prohib for civilian, not sure if it applies in that case...

The way I see it, shot placement is the bigger issue, those 5.7 are said to be pretty accurate, recoil is as low as it gets and range is greatly increased, not to mention mag capacity of 20rds/30rds with extended mags (not sure if the 10rds law applies to security).
If I remember correctly those guys cannot be issued rifle, FNH 5.7 is a "pocket rifle"... that is why I suggested it.
Click to expand...

The 5.7 is prohibited by caliber not type - the 10 rd limit applies, and the 5.7 is great for poking holes but sucks at energy transfer. Aside from being kinda "cute" (not what I look for in a combat handgun...), it is a monumental waste of time...


blake
 
I voted Springer XD-40, love mine, steel mags, easy cleaning, disassembly, and additional grip safety over glock, but just as easy to use. Chamber/striker indicators are also a bonus. Grip angle issues don't apply.

2nd vote would be M&P, and admittedly if I had more experience or were buying them as fleet guns, I'd probably lean more towards them, as parts availability, grip inserts, and armorers are important too, and everyone seems to love them.
 
mudgunner49 said:
EVERY LEO ND in Ontario has been with the Glock. Yes - every one that resulted in personal injury...

There have been no NDs (last 10 years) with the Sig. Not so - there have been several that I have been witness to (so there have certainly been more), just none that resulted in injury to person or property...


blake
Click to expand...

that puts an interesting slant on things dont you think?
Where and when are the NDs occuring? Seems to be a trend yes?

And yes I should have been more clear, what I refered to was REPORTED ND
and I agree with you that there may be more ND that go on than are reported.
But that would imply that a LEO did somethig intentionally wrong, (failed to report a ND) and if I do that the mods kick me in the pouch, so I will not do that here.......


But enough already....Strangeday what did you get?

And are you getting a good deal?
 
Had a Beretta.
Tried a Glock.
Tried an MP.
Bought a Sig P226. 9mm.
Natural POA. Draw, sight. Amazing. This thing sights itself.
Decocker.
Very easy to field strip and clean, and you don't have to pull the trigger to do it.
Very manageable recoil. Back on target almost instantaneously.
 
I know this is a little off topic. I'll understand if you don't want to get into because it could almost be another thread but what holster were you looking at?
 
ian_in_vic said:
Don't believe everything you read, Strangeday owns an FN 5.7 and a PS90. Several people here own firearms in 5.7 (at least I think he still has a PS90, might be 2.)
Click to expand...

i thought he had one of his two for sale


not really on the topic of the of the thread, but if you had a gunnut in your employ would you allow him to carry a personal pistol? say they competed in ispc or such with a 1911 but you issue glocks would it be reasonable to let him carry his personal gun as he is going to be more proficient with it? or is that going to break some type of rules/laws/insurance nightmare
 
ian_in_vic said:
Don't believe everything you read, Strangeday owns an FN 5.7 and a PS90. Several people here own firearms in 5.7 (at least I think he still has a PS90, might be 2.)
Click to expand...

Ix,

My apology if my apparent ignorance got your "knickers in a twist" - that was not the intent, and we would obviously have been better off having this conversation F2F :D !!


Sorry if I believed what I read in the Canadian Criminal Code ;)

PART 5
PROHIBITED AMMUNITION
Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 10
1. Any cartridge that is capable of being discharged from a commonly available semi-automatic handgun or revolver and that is manufactured or assembled with a projectile that is designed, manufactured or altered so as to be capable of penetrating body armour, including KTW, THV and 5.7 x 28 mm P-90 cartridges.

After speaking with a close friend with the Provincial Forensic Lab here, this is clearly an example of the legislation not keeping pace with technology (like it ever does). When the legislation was written, the FiveSeven was not available and the only 5.7 ammo available was for the P90 and was designed to be very penetrative. As the legislation reads the prohibition is still by caliber, however verbally from the RCMP, the commercially available frangible ammo is allowed, however no-one, insofar as I can determine, has laid it on the line and made a ruling one way or the other - and more significantly, the CCC has not been changed.

Is this strictly interpretation? Possibly - however everyone that I have talked to on the legal side interprets it the same way...

I do however still stand by my call on the inappropriateness of the 5.7 as a defensive arm, whether in the FiveSeven or the PS90. I'll cite overly expensive ammo, high penetration and relatively low tissue disruption, and the fact that there are no really serious end-users (yes, I know about the USSS - they get to try lots of stuff that never gets deployed in quantity) using either the caliber or the system. Neat? Without a doubt. Great cartridge for combat applications? I doubt it...:cool:

If it was all that it is hyped to be, it would be taking the tactical world by storm and that simply is not happening.


be safe,

blake
 
heavenIsAlie said:
i thought he had one of his two for sale


not really on the topic of the of the thread, but if you had a gunnut in your employ would you allow him to carry a personal pistol? say they competed in ispc or such with a 1911 but you issue glocks would it be reasonable to let him carry his personal gun as he is going to be more proficient with it? or is that going to break some type of rules/laws/insurance nightmare
Click to expand...

Ha, occured to me that if they 'ban' handguns we should all start security companies allowing employees to do just this. Of course they could practice at the range as much as they wanted........

Now my completely useless contribution to the original question..........

Why not give them .50 Desert Eagles? :pirate: They ar so big and scary the bad guys would never come close.........(and I think the mags only take 8 anyway so the 10 round restriction becomes less of an annoyance:runaway:)
 
mudgunner49 said:
Ix,

Sorry if I believed what I read in the Canadian Criminal Code ;)

blake
Click to expand...

I agree, but it is what it is - firearms using non-ap versions are legal and have FRT#'s stating they fire non-ap versions of that cartridge. The only thing I would think that would be a worse caliber for anyone to bet their butt on would be the German 4.7mm. Actually all of the PDW calibres are really deficient. Strangeday would be better off issuing AMT Javelinas in 30 M1 Carbine, and M1 carbines. :D
 
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ian_in_vic said:
I agree, but it is what it is - firearms using non-ap versions are legal and have FRT#'s stating they fire non-ap versions of that cartridge. The only thing I would think that would be a worse caliber for anyone to bet their butt on would be the German 4.7mm. Actually all of the PDW calibres are really deficient. Strangeday would be better off issuing AMT Javelinas in 30 M1 Carbine, and M1 carbines. :D
Click to expand...

I understand now - I think!! It doesn't have to make sense, it's gov't policy...

WRT the PDW calibers, agreed - so much for Teutonic efficiency!!!

"...better off issuing AMT Javelinas in 30 M1 Carbine, and M1 carbines..."

If they are anywhere near as loud as my .30 Carbine Blackhawk, it would either burn or scare the miscreants...


blake
 
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