New Timney triggers 2-Stage options

arcticcathonda

arcticcathonda

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Got to handle a couple of the new offerings from Timney triggers at SHOT over the past couple days. A new Calvin Elite 2 stage and another "hunter style" 2 stage trigger has been released. The triggers were both excellent with the Calvin second stage adjustable between 8oz-2lbs and the more field styled trigger was a 1.5-4lb offering on the 2nd stage.
 
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Hard to imagine what a 2-stage trigger set at 8oz would feel like. I got the regular Calvin Elite and 8oz was pretty darn light for me.
 
If a second stage is adjustable down to 8 oz., the first stage had better be adjustable to two or less. Otherwise, it just becomes a creepy single stage trigger.
 
You have it backwards. A 2 stage trigger with heavier weight in the second stage than in the first stage is pointless. It's just a single stage with a long pull. Second stage should be less than the first stage. Your muscles register change in force, not absolute force. The idea is to put most of the pull weight into the first stage so that the second stage break feels light.

My 2 stages are all set up to have 29 oz. in the first stage and 11 oz. in the second.
 
I am calling the first stage the stage which gets taken up first. Is that incorrect? In your example the trigger is set to 29 oz in the first stage and 29 plus 11 in the second (the 29 doesn't disappear) the first stage must be lighter than the second plus the first. To me this means the first stage is 29 and the second stage is 40. If the first stage is lighter than the second, instead of having a long single stage pull, you have a light take-up followed by a short, crisp let-off. If the initial stage is too heavy, there is a tendency to pull through the second. To me, a good two stage eight oz trigger would have a two or three ounce take-up (first stage) followed by eight ounce let-off (two or three plus six or five). So the total weight of pull would be eight ounces. Maybe what we have here is simply some confusion with definitions and a difference in preferences.
 
Have a look at the table on the lower right side of the first page in the link in post #9. Any manufacturer I have ever spoken to specifies trigger pull as: Total Trigger Pull = 1st. Stage Pull + 2nd. Stage Pull

The reason is because on a proper 2 stage trigger, adjusting one stage will not affect the other stage (which means they are additive mechanically as well). Adjusting the 1 stage will not affect the delta between where the second stage wall is encountered and where the trigger breaks, and vice-versa. If you put 5 oz. on both stages, you will have a 10 oz. total trigger pull. If you increase the 1st. stage to 10 oz., the total trigger pull will be 15 oz. (still a 5 oz. difference on the 2nd stage). If you increase the 1 stage trigger pull to 15 oz., the total trigger pull will be 20 oz. (still a 5 oz. difference on the 2nd stage). So, it kind of makes sense to specify the weights that way.

I'm guessing that you're shooting F-Class or something that doesn't require you to pick up 1 or 2 kg trigger weights since you're talking about a total trigger pull of 8 oz. The trigger in question can't go below 1.5 lbs. total pull weight, so it's probably not well suited to your application to begin with.

As for pulling through the second stage; on a good trigger, increasing the weight does not change the smoothness of the pull. Pulling through may be an issue when your dealing with triggers in low ounce total pull weights, but it's a common practice in disciplines where we have to have a trigger set to a total pull weight that is reasonable for field use for the first stage to account for bulk of the total pull weight. You adjust the 2nd. stage to where you don't fire unintentionally, then increase the 1st. stage till you can pick up the trigger weight with some margin. So in your terminology, my trigger has a 29 oz. 1 stage and a 40 oz. second stage for a total pull weight of 40 oz. I have never had an issue unintentionally pulling through the 2nd. stage with those settings shooting the rifle offhand, off of various barricades or from prone. I would suggest that someone who would lacks trigger control, and needs to do a bit more dry fire practice to hone their fundamentals.

The reason it's set that way is because it allows me to pick up the specified trigger weight, but doesn't feel like I'm pulling the total weight. It only feels Like I'm pulling the difference between the 1st. stage and total trigger weight (the 2nd. stage pull weight - also why the trigger weights are specified like that). If I set my 2 stage CG Xtreme to 29 oz. 1st. stage / 40 oz. total, after I take up the 29 oz., it feels like an 11 oz. trigger when I break the shot. If I compare it next to a Jewel set to 40 oz., the Jewel feels like a 40 oz. trigger when I break the shot. Both require 40 oz. total to break the shot, but the feel is completely different and it shows on the target (especially when shooting offhand or from an unstable position).
 
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I only mention the 8 oz example because that was given as the weight to which the new Timney can be set. I understand the concept as you have explained it and, open-minded individual that I am, I will look into setting up a trigger that way. Mine are generally set at about 35/65. That is, a 3 lb trigger will take about 1 to 1 1/4 to take up and an addition 1 3/4 to 2 to fire. My F class triggers are all single stage except for one which I've not finished and which I planned on making a two-stage. I do think an eleven ounce difference is enough to feel without pulling through providing the first stage isn't too heavy but half that, and most will have trouble with it unless the first stage is lightened up considerably.
Anyway, thanks for the explanation and the link. Regards, Bill
 
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