new to 45-70, looking for guidance!

.22LRGUY

.22LRGUY

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Hey guys~I'm new to the idea of reloading 45-70, but have reloaded .223, .204, .243 and 17 Hornet without issue. The last 4 all through bolt guns, the 45-70 will be a Marlin 1895 if it happens. :) I've only begun seriously reading about reloading 45-70 recently, and it seems different in allot of critical ways. I've even had a buddy recommend the Lee Loader kit saying "it's all you need"...but having watched a few YouTube tutorials, it seems a bit touchy-feely. More than I think I'd like. Before ANY powder flows, I'll read-up on all the load data for 45-70, but before I even get that far....I'm hoping some of you loaders might chime in on some load ideas, die opinions etc. Basically, tell me if there is anything you think I need to know, or if there are any holes in the plan I have, equipment, etc. Gun will have open sights, no scoping planned.

1. So basically, I've never upgraded from the RCBS "Partner" press...the first one I got to see if I even liked reloading. It's worked so well with the calibers I've loaded for so far, I haven't felt the need to upgrade. Will this small press be sufficient for 45-70 brass? Was fine for .243 Win. (308-sized). Not looking @ high-volume reloading in any caliber, so at most..I'd maybe be doing 30-40 rounds per session..but more likely 20-25.

2. I won't be casting bullets any time soon, nor do I even have a hunting application in mind at this point. For target shooting/fun (I'm not recoil shy, but not trying to make a point either)...what specific bullets/primers/brass do you suggest? What powders are you all using for this caliber?

3. Dies~are RCBS dies any better than LEE in this caliber, or is there a different make I should consider?

4. Dies~never had to crimp before, but have read that for the lever guns/tube mags...it's not optional, and that makes sense. In the die sets, is there a 3rd die for this operation?

5. Dies~I see RCBS overs a "Cowboy die set", what exactly is this compared to the standard set?

6. RCBS hand-priming tool~I use one of these, could never get the priming on this little press working just right. 45-70 is a big case, but will the hand priming tool with a shell holder still work on one of these tools? I don't see why not..

7. Brass~I've read the Hornady LEVERevolution brass can't be reloaded, is it the only one? Is there factory ammo I should try to get/reuse?

Probably other questions...but that's it for now. Feel free to include anything you think is relevant. I have shot 45-70, loved it...and think it's time. :)

Cheers, and thanks in advance,
.22LRGUY
 
Your Partner press will be fine. A 3 die set has an expander to open up the mouth of the case. It is more like loading pistol cases than bottleneck cases. Your loading die turned in to a certain point does the crimp. The cases tend to be more delicate than bottle neck cases and can be buckled easier. Go slow while loading.
The priming tool will work fine. Use whatever brass you have.
Remember, it's a 45-70 that throws pumpkins to 100 meters and not precision to 1000 meters. Use loading data appropriate for the type of action in your rifle.
 
I have reloaded Leverevolution brass and it works fine. I had to grind a bit off the base of my seating /crimping die to get a crimp but otherwise it seems ok
 
Cowboy dies have the expander slightly bigger for lead Bullets. If you want a nice plinking load use trailboss and a 405gr. lead bullet. 13 grs will pretty much fill the case.
 
.22LRGUY said:
Hey guys~I'm new to the idea of reloading 45-70, but have reloaded .223, .204, .243 and 17 Hornet without issue. The last 4 all through bolt guns, the 45-70 will be a Marlin 1895 if it happens. :) I've only begun seriously reading about reloading 45-70 recently, and it seems different in allot of critical ways. I've even had a buddy recommend the Lee Loader kit saying "it's all you need"...but having watched a few YouTube tutorials, it seems a bit touchy-feely. More than I think I'd like. Before ANY powder flows, I'll read-up on all the load data for 45-70, but before I even get that far....I'm hoping some of you loaders might chime in on some load ideas, die opinions etc. Basically, tell me if there is anything you think I need to know, or if there are any holes in the plan I have, equipment, etc. Gun will have open sights, no scoping planned.

1. So basically, I've never upgraded from the RCBS "Partner" press...the first one I got to see if I even liked reloading. It's worked so well with the calibers I've loaded for so far, I haven't felt the need to upgrade. Will this small press be sufficient for 45-70 brass? Was fine for .243 Win. (308-sized). Not looking @ high-volume reloading in any caliber, so at most..I'd maybe be doing 30-40 rounds per session..but more likely 20-25. Excellent press. Will do very well.

2. I won't be casting bullets any time soon, nor do I even have a hunting application in mind at this point. For target shooting/fun (I'm not recoil shy, but not trying to make a point either)...what specific bullets/primers/brass do you suggest? What powders are you all using for this caliber? Buy cast lead bullets. DRG in Guelph makes them. This is cheap shootin. Any standard large rifle primer will work. 4198 (30 to 40 grn) will give you accurate mild to full power loads

3. Dies~are RCBS dies any better than LEE in this caliber, or is there a different make I should consider? I use Lee.

4. Dies~never had to crimp before, but have read that for the lever guns/tube mags...it's not optional, and that makes sense. In the die sets, is there a 3rd die for this operation? The seater die body also crimps. Put an empty primed case in the shell holder, raise it up as far as it will go and then screw the seater die down until you feel it touch the case mouth. Down another quarter turn and lock it. Then later set the seater stem, as per usual. This setting will seat the bullet to the crimp groove and install a light crimp. You may have to fine tune the crimp, later

5. Dies~I see RCBS overs a "Cowboy die set", what exactly is this compared to the standard set?

6. RCBS hand-priming tool~I use one of these, could never get the priming on this little press working just right. 45-70 is a big case, but will the hand priming tool with a shell holder still work on one of these tools? I don't see why not.. I use a hand primer for all calibers.

7. Brass~I've read the Hornady LEVERevolution brass can't be reloaded, is it the only one? Is there factory ammo I should try to get/reuse?

Probably other questions...but that's it for now. Feel free to include anything you think is relevant. I have shot 45-70, loved it...and think it's time. :)

Cheers, and thanks in advance,
.22LRGUY
Click to expand...

I have no experience with Leverlution brass.
 
The lever evolution brass is shorter. If your reloading the ftx bullets everything works together. If you using that brass on any other bullet and crimp into the cannelure your OAL will be short. That will certainly change the case capacity/pressure and may create feeding issues with a marlin.
 
You are pretty well set up to load 45-70, with your current arrangement. About the only other items I would recommend, would be a Lyman M-die. A very useful tool, whether loading jacketed or lead bullets. Plus: a dedicated crimp die. Though you can seat the bullet and crimp in the same operation, I've found the process to be more trouble free, when the crimp operation is done separately. As far as 45-70 brass is concerned, Starline makes about the best brass I've used. You can order it from site sponsors: Rusty Wood, or Double Tap Sports. There are likely others I've missed, but, those retailers should have brass in stock.
 
Some older Marlin 1895's had their infamous Micro-Groove rifling that can be very difficult to get to to work with cast bullets. It seems to be a case-by-case situation where some rifles with that rifling will shoot cast and others wont. If it's a new purchase or a recent used rifle it should have Ballard rifling which is traditional rifling and works well with everything.

For plinking at low-moderate velocities cast really is the way to go. There are several places that sell cast and lubed bullets for very good prices. Jacketed bullets for .458" can be very pricey for plinking.
 
Marlin's Micro Groove rifling works just fine with lead bullets - IF you don't drive them so fast they strip lead in the bore. Thousands of us shoot them in CAS.

One word of advice - don't turn your 45-70 into a sub-.458 Win Mag. If you want a .458, buy one! A lot of guys get beaten up by their hot 45-70 loads and dislike the calibre afterwards. Thousands of bison and other big game have been dropped with the original BP loads or their smokeless equivalents.

Star Line brass is on the hard side and requires annealing more frequently than other brands, in my experience.
 
Get the LEE neck expander set. It's cheap and has 2 tapered sleeves that will expand anything from 22-45 and over. Because it's tapered you can adjust it to achieve as much flare as you want. Great product, I've used it thousands of times from 30-35-45 cal cast bullets. I've used a few hand primers but really like the RCBS universal as you don't need to install different shell holders. As mentioned above by LUTNIT, get one with the BALLARD rifling, it's much deeper and will handle cast. PERSONALLY, I've never understood the need for a jacketed bullet when you're sending them downrange under 2000 FPS. Cast works wonders and is much cheaper. I've even used 50cal muzzle loader balls, sized through a LEE PUSH THROUGH die. (CHEAP) Then used a small charge of shotgun powder and seat the sized ball with my fingers in the FLARED case. (LEE EXPANDER). The recoil is about the same as a 223 but quieter.
 
Hope the deal goes through and you get your hands on the 45-70. It is one of the coolest rounds available, honestly there’s just an almost unlimited variety of hand loading options and fun available. To try and answer your questions and my e add to the thread

1) Your press will be perfect, no worries. I started loading the cartridge on a Lee hand press.

2) I’d wait and see before you ever worry about casting. There’s lots of precast and lubed options available and they’ll work even if a bit more $ than casting.

3) I have both Lee and RCBS dies. I use RCBS mostly because I like the lock ring far better. However I always crimp with the Lee Factory crimp die.

4) See above about the factory crimp die. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

5) I’m not sure what “cowboy” dies offer but I’d imagine it has to do with seating cast bullets.

6) I use hand primers for everything.

7)Leverevolution brass is shorter than standard. It’s perfect for loading mtx and ftx bullets. There’s a seat/crimp die made for the shortened cases or as mentioned a standard seater can be modified or I imagine maybe specialty shell holders could work.


My favourite powders in the governor are IMR3031, trailboss, unique, red dot, reloader. One day I’d like to do black powder.

Have fun man.
 
Lever revolution brass will work but personally I don't know why you would. Get some proper length brass and be done with it, no more messing around.
 
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I've never been a lover of lever action rifles. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate them or don't own a few. They're not ergonomically correct for me straight from the factory and I'm not enthusiastic about making them so.

That being said, I love my 74 Sharps and my most recent "holy grail" acquisition an 1883 Hotchkiss repeating rifle, US martially marked. I played around with jacketed bullets in the Sharps but I just couldn't get the results I wanted. I moved on to 500 grain cast lead Postill type projectiles over a case full of black powder. The Sharps suddenly started to perform up to expectations, especially at extended ranges.

I haven't had a chance to shoot the Hotchkiss yet. I fully intend to get at it in the spring. It wasn't originally built to shoot the heavy 500 grain bullets so I will be casting up a bunch of 405 grain bullets intended for the Trapdoor Carbines, with a similar load.

As mentioned, if you're looking for 458 mag specs, get a 458 mag and don't look back.

The Marlin Guide Guns are fine for their intended purpose, which IMHO doesn't include long range shots. With good bullets they are MAULERS when used up close and personal. Several of the farmers/ranchers in my area use them exclusively. They have lots of issues with BEARS and often encounter them up close and personal.

I load rounds with 405 grain cast bullets for some of these folks, other than one that wants a bit more velocity and he uses the Hornady 305grn JHP.

I use H322 for both loads.

The 405 gr loads give just over 1700 fps with hard cast, powder coated projectiles and the 305 grain Hornady is jacketed but shoots well out of my friend's GG with just over 2000fps.

I find these loads are pretty close to maximum for these rifles and recoil is fierce. IMHO I would load them down for the ranges these fellows shoot, which is always under 75 meters. The fellow I load the JHP rounds for uses his rifle to hunt Deer out to 200 meters and his rifle is scoped. He's never complained about trajectory.

I've asked all of them for recovered bullets from kills. All I get are smiles. To this day, none of them have recovered a bullet from anything they've killed, which includes Bears, Deer, Coyotes, Wolves and sick livestock .

These heavy bullets have incredible penetrating qualities that are often overlooked. Their large diameters don't need to expand to make a hole big enough to cause a critter to bleed out or break big bones.

TURF THE LIBERALS IN 2019

Liberals really like POOR people, they're making more of them every day

If you can't vote CPC, stay at home in protest
 
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I myself am just getting the gun room set up for reloading. I went with the Hornady LNL Kit. Picked up other accessories I needed as well. I’ll be reloading for the 45-70 as well as my 7mm. I read 3 books so far. From what I’ve read the FTX 325g cases are 2.40 & normal is 2.50. U can o my reload gunmie boolits & Hornady makes the dies to do it properly. I’m only reloading cast as mentioned. Picked up some .459 405g gas checked from JetBullets.com in Wetaskawin Alberta. I’m doing the same as u mentioned. as much homework as possible prior to starting the production line. Oh rite, from my homework most common powder for the 45-70 is IMR4198 & IMR3031. I’m starting with 4198.


Cheers!
 
Both IMR and H versions of 4198 are excellent in full power 45-70. IMR3031 and RL7 are good, too.

Varget, IMR4895, and IMR4064 were a bit slow I thought, but will work.
 
Thanks guys, allot to process....but I'm working on it. Going to try and ask informed questions.. :) I don't even know what an "expander set" even is, remember...I've only loaded 17H, 204, 223 and 243.
 
EXPANDER set..... when using lead alloy bullets it "slightly" flares the mouth of the case so you can seat the bullet without damage. A Lyman M die will open the mouth of the case but you need one for each case diameter. The LEE, as mentioned, has a tapered sleeve so you can flare the case mouth as little, or as much as you want. (Just turn the sleeve in/out to determine what works for you) Sort of like making the mouth of the case into its own funnel but just BARELY so the bullet JUST starts to enter. Cast is wonderful, especially in larger diameters. I've shot cast out to 500 metres (308 Win silhouette course) very well. I've also watched BPCR (Black Powder Cartridge Rifle) guys/gals shoot over 800 yards using cast at a steel BISON target, NO scope, ladder type PEEP sights. After the shot it takes several seconds to hear the bang of the hit. CAST is very effective on targets AND BIG GAME. Bison were nearly wiped out using........... CAST.
 
You've been loading bottleneck cartridges. You used a 2 die set. 1. Resize/decap 2. seat/crimp.

45-70 is usually a 3 dies set: 1. resize/decap 2. expander 3. seater/crimper.

The expander die widens or flares the mouth of the brass a bit to make it easier to get the bullet started. You don't want to expand any more than necessary because it's hard on the brass.
 
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