New to black powder rookie question
- Thread starter zeddy32
- Start date
NorthCoastBigBore
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northwest BC (Rural) 103-I-##
Welcome aboard -
1) lubed patches are enough.
2) use the Patched Round ball to tamp the powder down. Get the feel for "where" on the rod that is then landmark against your hand so you can avoid gaps. If you're using a wooden ramrod, it'll bounce off the ball when she's properly seated. If you're using a range rod you'll be able to tell from the solid feel/thud - and again once you're sure, landmark 'er.
1) lubed patches are enough.
2) use the Patched Round ball to tamp the powder down. Get the feel for "where" on the rod that is then landmark against your hand so you can avoid gaps. If you're using a wooden ramrod, it'll bounce off the ball when she's properly seated. If you're using a range rod you'll be able to tell from the solid feel/thud - and again once you're sure, landmark 'er.
gunsaholic
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg, Manitoba
Possibly a bulge or ruptured barrel.
Welcome to the addiction of Holy Black.
With Black Powder you have to be sure there's no air gap between powder and projectile. I used to slam my ramrod off the ball until it bounced to ensure it was fully seated for every loading, not the best idea as could deform the ball and affect accuracy. But if you did that the first time for a new load, then you know it what fully seated is. Mark your ramrod and you're set. In my experience, a ramrod won't bounce if the ball isn't sitting fully on the powder.
With Black Powder you have to be sure there's no air gap between powder and projectile. I used to slam my ramrod off the ball until it bounced to ensure it was fully seated for every loading, not the best idea as could deform the ball and affect accuracy. But if you did that the first time for a new load, then you know it what fully seated is. Mark your ramrod and you're set. In my experience, a ramrod won't bounce if the ball isn't sitting fully on the powder.
The above is all good advice. As you get more familiar with things you'll learn the feeling of a seated ball without overcompressing the powder. Another board member far more knowledgeable than myself taught me that, as it affects your velocity - tighter packed powder giving lower velocities, so whatever your technique is, keep it consistent or you'll be confused why some shots hit a lot lower or in different locations without knowing that it's your ramming that's causing it.
Something most muzzle loaders do is mark their ramrods with coloured marker or tape so show empty and loaded. That way they know what the situation is down the bore if they had a brain fart. If your rod drops down to the empty line then you can be somewhat sure it's unloaded. If it drops to the loaded line then it's loaded. If it goes midway then you've either got a powder charge only, small powder charge and ball, or just the ball (D'oh!). In terms of ramming technique, you can use a wooden rod, synthetic rod, or brass range rod. All have pros and cons about them. Wooden rods are traditional and light, but a poor quality rod with the grain running out on it can shear and punch into your hand, so avoid slapping them down with an open palm. Instead hold the rod in a closed fist and ram it down. It can still shear, but is less likely to do major damage if it does (I'm sure there are better alternatives, I just don't know them... I use synthetic and brass). Synthetic rods are another good alternative and are very tough. Only downside is that as your bore cokes up it can be like trying to push the ball down with a wet noodle - they're almost too flexible. Good bullet lube and a blow tube help soften the coke/fouling (A blow tube is a flexible or 90* bend tube that fits snugly into the bore that you can puff air into the barrel to soften the fouling. You want it bent so that you don't stick your face over the muzzle of the gun). Your final option is a brass ramrod. They're heavy and generally not ideal to have fitted to your gun, so are called range rods, but they're generally the easiest to load with. They'll seat a bullet in even the most fouled bores, so are nice to have. They easily cause over tamping and can deform bullets though, so there's a trade off.
On that note, if you do dry-ball (load a ball without powder), seat the ball then remove the nipple and trickle some powder into the chamber via the flash channel, then replace the nipple and fire the ball out. It won't have much power, but it should leave the bore. If you're shooting a flintlock, poke as much powder into the flash hole as you can manage with the vent pick. As long as the ball's seated against the back of the chamber you should get it going. Check your bore after firing to make sure it fully left the barrel.
If you find you don't have lubed patches available, chewing them will do, aka spit-balling. It's not the best lube (
) but it'll do in a pinch. Biggest difference you'll find is that your bore will coke up a bit faster.
Also, instead of buying patches, pillow ticking (basically thin cotton sheets) work well. If you know your bore diameter, buy balls .10 to .15 smaller, then buy .05 thick pillow ticking or smooth cotton sheet, tear it into strips and roll it up in your pocket or possibles bag. As you need patches pull a section out, tear or cut it and voila, you have a dirt cheap patch. It always astounds me what companies charge for pre-cut patches...
Something most muzzle loaders do is mark their ramrods with coloured marker or tape so show empty and loaded. That way they know what the situation is down the bore if they had a brain fart. If your rod drops down to the empty line then you can be somewhat sure it's unloaded. If it drops to the loaded line then it's loaded. If it goes midway then you've either got a powder charge only, small powder charge and ball, or just the ball (D'oh!). In terms of ramming technique, you can use a wooden rod, synthetic rod, or brass range rod. All have pros and cons about them. Wooden rods are traditional and light, but a poor quality rod with the grain running out on it can shear and punch into your hand, so avoid slapping them down with an open palm. Instead hold the rod in a closed fist and ram it down. It can still shear, but is less likely to do major damage if it does (I'm sure there are better alternatives, I just don't know them... I use synthetic and brass). Synthetic rods are another good alternative and are very tough. Only downside is that as your bore cokes up it can be like trying to push the ball down with a wet noodle - they're almost too flexible. Good bullet lube and a blow tube help soften the coke/fouling (A blow tube is a flexible or 90* bend tube that fits snugly into the bore that you can puff air into the barrel to soften the fouling. You want it bent so that you don't stick your face over the muzzle of the gun). Your final option is a brass ramrod. They're heavy and generally not ideal to have fitted to your gun, so are called range rods, but they're generally the easiest to load with. They'll seat a bullet in even the most fouled bores, so are nice to have. They easily cause over tamping and can deform bullets though, so there's a trade off.
On that note, if you do dry-ball (load a ball without powder), seat the ball then remove the nipple and trickle some powder into the chamber via the flash channel, then replace the nipple and fire the ball out. It won't have much power, but it should leave the bore. If you're shooting a flintlock, poke as much powder into the flash hole as you can manage with the vent pick. As long as the ball's seated against the back of the chamber you should get it going. Check your bore after firing to make sure it fully left the barrel.
If you find you don't have lubed patches available, chewing them will do, aka spit-balling. It's not the best lube (
) but it'll do in a pinch. Biggest difference you'll find is that your bore will coke up a bit faster. Also, instead of buying patches, pillow ticking (basically thin cotton sheets) work well. If you know your bore diameter, buy balls .10 to .15 smaller, then buy .05 thick pillow ticking or smooth cotton sheet, tear it into strips and roll it up in your pocket or possibles bag. As you need patches pull a section out, tear or cut it and voila, you have a dirt cheap patch. It always astounds me what companies charge for pre-cut patches...
one of my pet peeves is the idea that bouncing a wooden ram rod on the ball, when the ball is nearly seated, will seat the ball with the correct amount of pressure. On the rifles that I have shot, on a warm or hot day and after 10 or 15 shorts or more, I seem to get a ring of fouling a little bit ahead of where the ball is seated. It takes a lot of ramming to get a ball past that ring and down to the powder. Bouncing a wooden rod would have no effect of getting the ball past the ring. A wet patch on a jag or similar will reduce the ring for a few shots.
Patch thickness varies significantly depending on ball diameter and depth of rifling and you need to decide was is the best combination for your gun to give you easy loading and maintains accuracy. The thinnest I use is .010" and most of my guns like .015 to .020 patches. I take a micrometer to the fabric store when I buy patching. It is false economy to use things like old bed sheets because they are not uniformly thick. The edges of a bed sheet remain roughly the same as when bought while the center portion gradually wears thinner.
on the subject of ram rods, I use almost exclusively wooden rods. The only synthetic rod I use is in a 32 cal rifle because a wooden rod would be just too fragile for that gun. What is surprising is how much a ram rod whips back and forth above your hand while ramming a ball. I have had one or two videos taken of me loading and the amount of whip is quite striking. When ramming I keep my hand about 6 or 8 inches above the muzzle and go down in a series of taps. Pushing on the end of the rod is almost guaranteed to break the rod within a short time
cheers mooncoon
Patch thickness varies significantly depending on ball diameter and depth of rifling and you need to decide was is the best combination for your gun to give you easy loading and maintains accuracy. The thinnest I use is .010" and most of my guns like .015 to .020 patches. I take a micrometer to the fabric store when I buy patching. It is false economy to use things like old bed sheets because they are not uniformly thick. The edges of a bed sheet remain roughly the same as when bought while the center portion gradually wears thinner.
on the subject of ram rods, I use almost exclusively wooden rods. The only synthetic rod I use is in a 32 cal rifle because a wooden rod would be just too fragile for that gun. What is surprising is how much a ram rod whips back and forth above your hand while ramming a ball. I have had one or two videos taken of me loading and the amount of whip is quite striking. When ramming I keep my hand about 6 or 8 inches above the muzzle and go down in a series of taps. Pushing on the end of the rod is almost guaranteed to break the rod within a short time
cheers mooncoon
NorthCoastBigBore
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northwest BC (Rural) 103-I-##
Agreed; and to be clear I wasn't suggesting using that as a means of seating the ball - only double checking it's home. That would be a recipe for trouble. I also notice that "ring" at the very end after a long day, or depending on the temp/humidity of the day, or different lube...
I've taken a hickory ramrod through the hand many years ago it wasn't fun, they certainly do move a lot. I use a metal range rod now on the range, but it doesn't have the "style points".
You should have spare ramrod as they do break, especially when you're starting out... and you need the proper ramrod wood not just any hardware dowelling. That said, I personally (not advocating it) use wooden dowelling and many rounds down with it but it is dangerous and not recommended ESPECIALLY for a beginner. I simply cannot get decent doweliing up here unless I order it in at $$$. If you're in a bigger centre you might be able to source the proper stuff, otherwise Track of the Wolf carries it - keep extras on hand. Like I say I use a metal range rod lately, unless I'm doing a trail walk but not much going on here for the club so...mainly off the bench.
Regardless of the ramrod, I always use my short starter on the end of the rod, so if it does break I reduce the chances of repeating my hickory-through-the-hand incident. Not sure if there are places in the big centres that can get the proper stuff but Track of the Wolf usually carries blank ramrod stock, it's a good idea to have some extras.
Another tip worth adding on that topic - crosspin your ramrod ends. It really isn't much fun to ram the ball home, feel some resistance as you lift, then "pop" and you get a rod with no end.
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Lonesome Donkey
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Alberta
I have always used an old all-steel Uncle Mike's one-piece range rod.
These have a large wooden ball with a brass fitting which screws on to the end.
As well, they came with a brass bore guide to center the rod to protect the crown.
These rods have enough weight and rigidity to seat a ball even with resistance from fouling that would make it difficult with a hickory rod.
As well, they take caliber-specific brass seating tips, cleaning jags, worms, ball drills, or any other standard accessory with a 10-32 thread.
Those accessories will never pull the end off, like what might happen with a hickory rod.
That wooden ball allows pressing down with two hands for all the force that you need, without the need to bounce the rod.
I also use a couple of identical short-length versions made as short starters (or long starters?).
Save the hickory rod for field use when hunting.
Find a steel one-piece range rod as described above for range use.
Track of the Wolf sells 5/16" diameter steel range rods in various lengths from 36" and up.
They have a hardwood screwdriver-style handle rather than a ball, but still a good rod.
These have a large wooden ball with a brass fitting which screws on to the end.
As well, they came with a brass bore guide to center the rod to protect the crown.
These rods have enough weight and rigidity to seat a ball even with resistance from fouling that would make it difficult with a hickory rod.
As well, they take caliber-specific brass seating tips, cleaning jags, worms, ball drills, or any other standard accessory with a 10-32 thread.
Those accessories will never pull the end off, like what might happen with a hickory rod.
That wooden ball allows pressing down with two hands for all the force that you need, without the need to bounce the rod.
I also use a couple of identical short-length versions made as short starters (or long starters?).
Save the hickory rod for field use when hunting.
Find a steel one-piece range rod as described above for range use.
Track of the Wolf sells 5/16" diameter steel range rods in various lengths from 36" and up.
They have a hardwood screwdriver-style handle rather than a ball, but still a good rod.
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One aspect on the wooden ramrod that likely/possibly led to NorthCoast's spiked hand is to push the wooden rods home with small bites on the rod. Don't hold it up near the end and try to push home all in one go. That's a great recipe for the rod to bow badly and snap if the ball hits a rough spot. If the ball is snug in the bore using only about 5 to 6" bites on the rod is the way to go. And if it really locks up then reduce the amount to more like 2 or 3 inches Push each home first before moving up to take another bite.
A short starter is handy as hell if you don't have one already. They have a small nub that just seats the ball for those of us that use dry patches then apply a water based patch lube. And the longer part ensures the ram rod is supported and guided for the first bite on ramming the patched ball home.
A short starter is handy as hell if you don't have one already. They have a small nub that just seats the ball for those of us that use dry patches then apply a water based patch lube. And the longer part ensures the ram rod is supported and guided for the first bite on ramming the patched ball home.
NorthCoastBigBore
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northwest BC (Rural) 103-I-##
Yessir it's been while but I think that is exactly what happened. Come to think of it, it may have even been due to that "ring" Mooncoon mentioned that develops after a day of shooting, combined with short hits of the ramrod BCR describes.
Well I went out yesterday and never having anything to do with black powder in the past it was very easy and unbelievably enjoyable. I shot it 10 times and already want to buy more guns. To put it simply it is my new addiction, I like it as much if not more than reloading. Joining the black powder club at my range this week. Ty all for the help and advice.
I make my short starters from a piece of moose horn and about 8" of brass tubing for the handle. The horn is square across the end, like a mallet and easier to use than the typical round balls. The brass handle portion is flared a bit with a copper tubing flaring tool (think plumbing) I think most short starters are too short. Also with the longer handle you can use it as a ramrod on single shot pistols. I hang the short starter through a loop on the outside of my possibles bag
cheers mooncoon
That's awesome! When you figure out how to host and post pictures a picture of your smoke pole would be nice.
Does that local group just do target shooting or do they have a "proper" black powder trail? If they do you should start looking for a nice possibles bag and other gear to load from the bag and shoulder strap loops that hold all your stuff.
Lonesome Donkey
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Alberta
Actually, if the OP is really "hooked" then now is the time to embrace the crafts part of muzzle-loading.
He should learn how to MAKE a nice possibles bag, buy some leather and tools from Tandy, and go to it.
This opens the door to also making his own knife sheaths, belts with 1700's or early 1800's iron or brass buckles, and holsters for the inevitable cap & ball Remington or Colt revolver(s) that he is going to buy. (Marstar has Pietta - Nice.)
I think that the OP is also going to discover that casting his own balls from pure lead makes a lot of sense, since some sizes are only available by mail order these days. With Lee molds, small 10# iron pot, Lyman ladle, and a camp stove, you're in business.
Also, making your own powder horn is very rewarding. Track of the Wolf (the go-to store on-line) has nice how-to and historical sketchbooks books on this and everything else.
Of course, he will want to buy some Green River blades, and maybe a Bowie blade, and curly maple or walnut scales from TofW and build some skinnin' and fightin' knives as well, to make his knife sheaths for.
And, then he may want to take a long lustful look at all of the historically correct flintlock rifle kits that TofW offers, and build one or two of these.
It's a whole new hobby.
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Of course, if the OP wants to camp out as part of his new Buckskinner persona, then perhaps he could also buy himself a Lodge-made Dutch Oven, and bake some wonderful biscuits each morning.
Ending the day with a cup or two of Jack Daniels ain't a bad idea either.
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NorthCoastBigBore
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northwest BC (Rural) 103-I-##
Actually, if the OP is really "hooked" then now is the time to embrace the crafts part of muzzle-loading.
He should learn how to MAKE a nice possibles bag, buy some leather and tools from Tandy, and go to it.
This opens the door to also making his own knife sheaths, belts with 1700's or early 1800's iron or brass buckles, and holsters for the inevitable cap & ball Remington or Colt revolver(s) that he is going to buy. (Marstar has Pietta - Nice.)
I think that the OP is also going to discover that casting his own balls from pure lead makes a lot of sense, since some sizes are only available by mail order these days. With Lee molds, small 10# iron pot, Lyman ladle, and a camp stove, you're in business.
Also, making your own powder horn is very rewarding. Track of the Wolf (the go-to store on-line) has nice how-to and historical sketchbooks books on this and everything else.
Of course, he will want to buy some Green River blades, and maybe a Bowie blade, and curly maple or walnut scales from TofW and build some skinnin' and fightin' knives as well, to make his knife sheaths for.
And, then he may want to take a long lustful look at all of the historically correct flintlock rifle kits that TofW offers, and build one or two of these.
It's a whole new hobby.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, if the OP wants to camp out as part of his new Buckskinner persona, then perhaps he could also buy himself a Lodge-made Dutch Oven, and bake some wonderful biscuits each morning.
Ending the day with a cup or two of Jack Daniels ain't a bad idea either.
Whole heartedly agree. That is a BIG part of the fun... I make all my stuff, it eventually got to the point where store bought stuff didn't really cut the mustard anymore. Besides, especially before this intermanet thing took off, I was pretty well limited to the WSS mail order catalog offerings, and whatever other folks made and brought to a shoot. Weren't bad, but not necessarily what I wanted or needed.
Actually, if the OP is really "hooked" then now is the time to embrace the crafts part of muzzle-loading.
He should learn how to MAKE a nice possibles bag, buy some leather and tools from Tandy, and go to it.
This opens the door to also making his own knife sheaths, belts with 1700's or early 1800's iron or brass buckles, and holsters for the inevitable cap & ball Remington or Colt revolver(s) that he is going to buy. (Marstar has Pietta - Nice.)
I think that the OP is also going to discover that casting his own balls from pure lead makes a lot of sense, since some sizes are only available by mail order these days. With Lee molds, small 10# iron pot, Lyman ladle, and a camp stove, you're in business.
Also, making your own powder horn is very rewarding. Track of the Wolf (the go-to store on-line) has nice how-to and historical sketchbooks books on this and everything else.
Of course, he will want to buy some Green River blades, and maybe a Bowie blade, and curly maple or walnut scales from TofW and build some skinnin' and fightin' knives as well, to make his knife sheaths for.
And, then he may want to take a long lustful look at all of the historically correct flintlock rifle kits that TofW offers, and build one or two of these.
It's a whole new hobby.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, if the OP wants to camp out as part of his new Buckskinner persona, then perhaps he could also buy himself a Lodge-made Dutch Oven, and bake some wonderful biscuits each morning.
Ending the day with a cup or two of Jack Daniels ain't a bad idea either.
All that sounds great but for now I'm just gonna concentrate on getting a good load and putting a few more balls down range. Although I already got some lead and my Sister-in-law doest leather work lol
