New to BP - Want a Military Carbine Repro!

Drachenblut

Drachenblut

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Hello,

I have longed to obtain a short carbine (approx. 42" OAL or less, like a dragoon carbine or artillery carbine perhaps?) Either a cheap original (HA! FAT chance) or a reasonable reproduction.

I love milsurps in general but long for the old ways of muzzle loaded musketry, however I am a short guy and really prefer the handiness of a carbine length arm.

I have done some searching and research, but would still like to ask my questions here, as you gentlemen are very well read into your art of black powder!

Firstly, what kinds of carbines are availiable? I do not mind flintlock, or percussion, but it has to be wood + metal in a military style and muzzloading. I had the British Light Dragoon carbine from the early 1760's recommended to me as a place to start, but could not find a repro anywhere.

Secondly, is it normal to need to make all your own shooting supplies or can you buy balls of proper diameter, powder, flints/caps etc from a store here in Alberta? (I'm around Calgary if that helps)

Thirdly, what manufacturers make well known and reliable reproductions of those said military carbines? I have heard only of Pedersoli, and their prices are up there from what I can see.

Fourthly, what are some common calibres of ball? I am looking mostly at British designs but anything the world over is fine. I shot an old Brown Bess musket at the range once in .71 (or was it .75?) and I fell in love, but not with the length and weight!

Any info would be great gents!

Thanks,
Drach

P.S. I am particularly interested in Austrian/Prussian designs, as I can trace my family's military background back 400 years, so I have a strong collecting interest in that direction.
 
The only good carbine that I can think of are the Parker Hale reproductions. They are exact or extremely close replicas and perhaps the only drawback (common to most military rifles) is that they use musket caps which can be difficult to find in some areas. They use a patched .570 ball. I see them on the EE and in gunshows for $500 - $700 and they are usually in pretty good condition.

I think your only hope for a russian or austrian carbine would be a custom kit (if you can find one) or making one yourself from parts from a US dealer like Track of the Wolf. I don't have an address for it but there is a webpage describing Norwegian military rifles. Not exactly russian or austrian but at least northern Europe

cheers mooncoon
 
Try Loyalist Arms, they're in Nova Scotia. Quite a lot to choose from. They are all smoothbore muskets. If you want rifled it's Pedersoli or Armisport both expensive. Once you decide what you want and order it go to Track of the Wolf website. They have anything and everything you will need for the caliber. Patches, ball puller, worms and other attachments for cleaning and other tasks. They also sell all sizes of balls, but it would be expensive to ship. I don't know where in Canada if at all you can get all this. They ship to Canada, you might even see a musket you like on their site and they ship those also. You will probably have to buy a mold and cast your own balls. Hope this helps.
 
Kits for those can also be had from the rifle shoppe, they are a little pricey and you might have to wait awhile but they have them.

Also look at these for the india guns:
Loyalist arms
Middlesex villiage
Military heritage
 
How are your woodworking skills?
Sadly we are losing an older gentleman in the family (cancer) who has some original BP's.
An Enfield musket, a Snyder which is sitting in an inlet-ted block of hardwood, a Vetterilli.
I'm not sure of the intended destination of them, I may get asked an opinion or asked to help in selling them.
Many will go to various family members but the fix-er-uppers will probably get put up on the EE here.
 
Sorry to hear that tok guy, its a terrible thing. Hoepfully the guns go to a good home, I would be willing to help with those fixer uppers.

Cheers, McLean
 
A second on the Parker hale musketoons and carbines - they're very high quality guns.

Also, there are original austrian carbines floating around - almost all rifled. One came up for sale on the EE repeatedly under different sellers for a while. Eventually I saw it at the Chilliwack gunshow. Lots were imported to the states and a few have drifted north. They don't command as much money as the better known guns and are often altered in minor wars.
 
I had that austrian carbine for a while, never got a chance to shoot it. I kind of miss that little gun. Never even got a chance to shoot it. I would like to get it back some day.

Mclean
 
Well if you ever see it floating around, I am sure we can come up with a deal for it!

I'd appreciate any military style muzzle loader carbine/musketoon. I'll be looking into Parker-Hale.
 
Well ill have it in my hans tommorow probably and give it a good going over. Then decide where to go from there.

I may sell it once im finished, focusing more on flintlock long guns right now so Its sort of out of my area of interest for reenactment.
 
Ref: the Parker-Hales.

I was at the Pattern Room at Enfield shortly after they got their Snider gauges back from PH. Table 3 feet wide and 20-odd feet long covered with gauges, more of them 4 feet up the wall in back. All originals, many made by Sir Joseph Whitworth.

They had the very FIRST PH 1858 on the rifle rack beside the Sealed Pattern. I examined both only a couple of minutes apart. The Sealed Pattern was absolutely wonderful..... but the PH was even BETTER.

Pretty hard to believe, but I had them both in my hands, one right after the other.

Then I went to play with Maxim Gun s/n 1.
.
 
Good grief man - you've started só many collection that ended in a "Fire Sale" that some of us are taking bets on how long this will last.
 
The 1858 P-H is the best .577 to shoot because of the length and the progressive depth rifling which gives the best accuracy, with Mini projectile.
The 1860 has the same rifling but not enough barrel length to be accurate. I never shot round ball through my P-H rifles. I use Minie bullets cast by a Lyman three piece mold # 577611. I am not shure what the number 252 indicates.
I had a guy borrow my mold for a while back years ago and he was making rounds with it. I asked him for some for my rifle and he wanted to charge me for them. I provided the lead, bought the mold and he had the nerve to try to charge me for them. I found out later he was molding rounds and selling them, I wasn't getting anything out of it. I got the mold back the next day, then the other guys told me he borrows stuff but never gives them back. Its probably how he ended up with over a few $1,000,000 in investments, the cheap SOB.
 
Drach, the short calvary length carbines are pretty cool. I build a 20 inch 58 cal flinter that is ridiculously light and handy. Not a do everything gun by any means but it will do most things and is very likely to be in your hand afield while other's rest in the safe. I consider it a Bow range weapon with out the hassle of a string.
Do a search for "canoe guns" or look at the german/austrian mountain rifles of the 18th century. (yep they had mountain rifles and the wieghts would make modern builders green with envy)
 
How about one of these.It is smoothbore 16ga

5778.jpg
 
smellie said:
Ref: the Parker-Hales.

I was at the Pattern Room at Enfield shortly after they got their Snider gauges back from PH. Table 3 feet wide and 20-odd feet long covered with gauges, more of them 4 feet up the wall in back. All originals, many made by Sir Joseph Whitworth.

They had the very FIRST PH 1858 on the rifle rack beside the Sealed Pattern. I examined both only a couple of minutes apart. The Sealed Pattern was absolutely wonderful..... but the PH was even BETTER.

Pretty hard to believe, but I had them both in my hands, one right after the other.

Then I went to play with Maxim Gun s/n 1.
.
Click to expand...

Hmmmmm. In that case you might have been there the same day as I was. I helped Ron and the staff open up the wooden crates that had been delivered from a very miffed Roger Hale. They had 'borrowed' the gauges back in the late 1970's, and 'somehow' fogotten to return them.

One of the many things I loved about the place was laying hands on ALL the original Sharps carbines and rifles hand-made by Christian Sharps himself. Our American friends are endlessly pissed off by this freak happening in the history of firearms.

tac
 
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