New to IPSC, some questions

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Markus

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I recently passed my first qualifier and am waiting for my Black badge to come in the mail. I have a few questions to help me get onto the right path.

First is that I have heard it is a disadvantage to shoot 9mm in Standard class and that most people are running 40's. Is it that big of a disadvantage to shoot a 9mm?

I am bouncing idea's around as for what I should run for a gun. I took my black badge with a Norinco NZ85 but I am wanting to upgrade now. I really like CZ guns but I also hate to follow the pack with a Shadow even though I know undoubtedly they are a super gun I love the gun but I want to differentiate myself from everyone else at least a little bit. I have thrown around the idea of a CZ97 and M&P pro's and shooting in production. But I have also looked at the Glock 34/35 and shooting in Standard. Am I totally out to lunch here? Will I as a new shooter get eaten alive in Standard? I am not completely with out skill. I finished in the middle of the pack in my qualifier in production.

I'm just looking for suggestions to help a new shooter get started on the right track.
 
My understanding is that folks shoot .40 to make major power factor, which is typically harder to achieve in 9mm - someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I did the Black Badge and my first match earlier in the spring with my much loved HK P30L. I was the only one shooting any variety of HK, but I'm ok with that. I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that you do the same though as that is very much a personal choice. There is a recent thread on here that goes to great lengths to espouse the virtues of both the CZ and HK pistols in a similar situation to the one you've described. Personally, I don't think you could go wrong with either.
 
Congratulations!!! Did you shoot at the POCO qualifier yesterday? It was my first qualifier as well. Although I am also new to IPSC and new to shooting, I will give you my 2 cents worth of suggestion. I am shooting M&P 9mm and also finished in the middle pack in production yesterday. After checking the score, I realized that my shot were pretty accurate but my time was quite slow and that pulled me down the rank. So now I know if I want to get better score, I will need to work on my time while keep my accuracy. If you like your Norinco NZ85 and want to keep it, then I suggest you just practice more with it and continue competing with it. However, if you are looking for another gun, then I believe it will be best if you can try the gun out first. Since you've shot a qualifier already, you will definitely know what looking for in a gun when you shoot it.

As far as 9mm vs .40 goes, I haven't shot any .40 caliber so can't really say which is better. However, I met a couple yesterday shooting .40 Glocks. They choose it first because they love Glock and the power, yet they say for competition, they use the .40 light load. They claim the .40 light load is less snappier than 9mm round yet met the power factor without any problem.

Personally I will probably shoot 9mm just because of the cost factor. I will consider .40 or other caliber when I start doing reloading.

Hope my 2 cents talk is worth something. Cheers.
 
Hi Markus.

Markus said:
I recently passed my first qualifier and am waiting for my Black badge to come in the mail. I have a few questions to help me get onto the right path.

First is that I have heard it is a disadvantage to shoot 9mm in Standard class and that most people are running 40's. Is it that big of a disadvantage to shoot a 9mm?
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Yes. You can't shoot "A"s quick enough to make up for the scoring difference between major and minor in Standard division.

I am bouncing idea's around as for what I should run for a gun. I took my black badge with a Norinco NZ85 but I am wanting to upgrade now. I really like CZ guns but I also hate to follow the pack with a Shadow even though I know undoubtedly they are a super gun I love the gun but I want to differentiate myself from everyone else at least a little bit
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Ever Consider a Tanfoglio Stock II or III? :cool: ;)

I have thrown around the idea of a CZ97 and M&P pro's and shooting in production. But I have also looked at the Glock 34/35 and shooting in Standard. Am I totally out to lunch here? Will I as a new shooter get eaten alive in Standard?
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Yes, you will. Your Glock is shooting against STI Edges and Apeiros and SVI Infinitys with 1.5 lb triggers, heavy front ends, recoil control, thumb rests, excellent sights, etc. Unless your real name is Sevigny or Vogel, you're going to be disappointed.

I am not completely with out skill. I finished in the middle of the pack in my qualifier in production.
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That all depends on who was at the qualifier - was Nick K there? (A National Champion in production) Was the best an average shooter?

I'm just looking for suggestions to help a new shooter get started on the right track.
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Welcome to the game - I hope I get to meet you when the nationals heads back to BC next year! :cheers:

tulsah said:
My understanding is that folks shoot .40 to make major power factor, which is typically harder to achieve in 9mm - someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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The smallest caliber that can make major in Standard is 40.
 
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Markus said:
I recently passed my first qualifier and am waiting for my Black badge to come in the mail. I have a few questions to help me get onto the right path.

First is that I have heard it is a disadvantage to shoot 9mm in Standard class and that most people are running 40's. Is it that big of a disadvantage to shoot a 9mm?

I am bouncing idea's around as for what I should run for a gun. I took my black badge with a Norinco NZ85 but I am wanting to upgrade now. I really like CZ guns but I also hate to follow the pack with a Shadow even though I know undoubtedly they are a super gun I love the gun but I want to differentiate myself from everyone else at least a little bit. I have thrown around the idea of a CZ97 and M&P pro's and shooting in production. But I have also looked at the Glock 34/35 and shooting in Standard. Am I totally out to lunch here? Will I as a new shooter get eaten alive in Standard? I am not completely with out skill. I finished in the middle of the pack in my qualifier in production.

I'm just looking for suggestions to help a new shooter get started on the right track.
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i would say stick to production if your gonna use off the shelf rigs, at least for a season. theres nothing wrong with the norinco you completed your BB with and if it goes bang every time, why not save your money for something you are gonna want once you are familiar with the sport? :)

its an easy trap to want something new or different early on and then have to spend more money on something you actually need not too much later.
 
Thank you all for the help.

Yes Nick was there and finished at the top by a wide margin (no not at POCO this was a couple weeks ago). There were 12 or 13 other shooters. I have certainly looked at the Tanfoglio's and they are very nice pistols. It also doesn't hurt that I have a bunch of magazines and grips that will work on a Tanfoglio. I like the looks of the Model L, the Stock 3 and the limited Pro. But these are pistols that will be hard for me to get my hands on in the near future.

The problem with my Norinco is that the trigger bar lifter spring is eating away at the trigger bar. So it's now starting to not go bang every time I pull the trigger. Plus I'm a gear guy and like to buy new toys. I've got some parts ordered to fix the Norc but I know I will want to upgrade in the future anyhow.

You guys have given me a direction to move in and I think it will be best to start in Production class. So it'll end up being a 9mm and probably a Tanfoglio or a CZ of some variation.
 
classic division is also a good class, you can shoot 9mm for cost (I do) and it doesn't hurt you to badly because you get 2 extra shots compared to the guys shooting major (means you can reload when the production guys do, not every time you move). cost wise its the same as production, a STI Spartan works just fine (again, this is what I use with a few basic mods, 14 000 rounds so far and still going) which you can get from freedom ventures for the same price as a shadow and unlike the shadow you can get high quality magazines for $45 each or less and not $50 for the crappy 10 round CZ ones.

and 1911s are still the best guns ;)
 
Damn you Sean! You answered all the questions I was going to answer and you did it better than I would have!


To the OP. Welcome to IPSC! Your best bet it to find out if a club local to you has a league night. If so start going, ask questions. You'll improve your skill, get lots of advice (good and bad) and probably make a few friends. Most IPSC guys I know are pretty friendly and if you ask nicely they would probably love to let you shoot their gun. That way you can decide what YOU like and what YOU don't and can look for in your future gun purchase. I have a Shadow. I love it. I would highly recommend it. I quickly learned that while being different is sometimes nice, there is a reason the majority of people shoot specific guns in each division.
 
GarDian said:
They claim the .40 light load is less snappier than 9mm round yet met the power factor without any problem.
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True. If you shoot a .40 in production division you still only need to make 125 power factor. When I had my .40 I shot some pretty powder-puff loads that definitely had low recoil, comparable or less than my 9mm. Generally you run into the problem of the gun not cycling properly looong before you get to the point where you need to worry about making power factor or not. I know personally one guy with a .40 sig that had that very problem and I believe he said he needed 150ish PF in order for his gun to cycle reliably.

However a Major PF load for standard is much snappier than a 9mm making minor in production. As for 9 major? Well that's an open thing that I know next to nothing about so I won't comment.
 
ShooterReady.ca said:
classic division is also a good class, you can shoot 9mm for cost (I do) and it doesn't hurt you to badly because you get 2 extra shots compared to the guys shooting major (means you can reload when the production guys do, not every time you move). cost wise its the same as production, a STI Spartan works just fine (again, this is what I use with a few basic mods, 14 000 rounds so far and still going) which you can get from freedom ventures for the same price as a shadow and unlike the shadow you can get high quality magazines for $45 each or less and not $50 for the crappy 10 round CZ ones.

and 1911s are still the best guns ;)
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CZ mags are only about $45 and Tanfolgio mags, which work perfectly in the shadow are about $35 or $40. Also what makes the CZ ones crappy? Both my CZ and tanfo mags have worked perfectly for the last 3 years and trust me, I'm not very nice to them.

You could also get a para LDA and shoot production if you really wanted a 1911 PD gun.
 
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ndb86 said:
CZ mags are only about $45 and Tanfolgio mags, which work perfectly in the shadow are about $35 or $40. Also what makes the CZ ones crappy? Both my CZ and tanfo mags have worked perfectly for the last 3 years and trust me, I'm not very nice to them.

You could also get a para LDA and shoot production if you really wanted a 1911 PD gun.
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tanfo mags are good, and I see them at $45 on FV site which is less than I remember them for some reason... I was probably adding better base pads into the cost. 10 round CZ mags suck simply because I have seen to many break or come apart way before any other mags have. the proper capacity cz ones are awesome though
 
ShooterReady.ca said:
tanfo mags are good, and I see them at $45 on FV site which is less than I remember them for some reason... I was probably adding better base pads into the cost. 10 round CZ mags suck simply because I have seen to many break or come apart way before any other mags have. the proper capacity cz ones are awesome though
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You want to see a crappy mag? I had 4 Taurus mags break during my Black Badge. Now THOSE are crappy mags. Like I say my CZ and tanfo mags I got at the same time and they all have about the same use(and abuse) and they all work just fine after 3 years. my cz mags have the stock plastic basepads on them and my tanfo ones are just the stock thin metal basepad.
 
factory 10 round CZ mags blow chunks. Sorry. They do. Full length CZ mags rule. But they are hard to come by. A better choice for most Canadians are the Tanfoglio mags. They are really well built, are full length tubes (pinned to 10) instead of 2/3 mags like the CZ ones. Plus being non OEM mags you can throw Henning or Eric baseplates on them and get a bit more purchase when reloading, and still be ok in Production Div. Plus, Sean is an awesome guy and Freedom Ventures (his store) rocks.
 
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