I've been reloading for rifle (30-06 and 7mm-08) for a number of years now with great success. I now have bought my first revolver (.357 mag) which I plan to reload for. I'm wondering if the process for working up the loads is modified in any way for revolvers? The beauty about rifles is that the data for specific bullets seems to be more readily available. I've experienced sticky bolts before in rifle with hot loads, (factory loads from Federal, not my own), but obviously I can't rely on that for a revolver. How do you know when then the load is becoming too hot? Do people use chronographs more and load to velocity? Are the other pressure signs (flattening primer, loose primer etc) similar? Insight and advice would be appreciated!
New to pistol reloading...questions.
- Thread starter Ranman
- Start date
I have reloaded my share of handgun rounds, but don't profess to be an expert here. I have never seen pressure signs on handgun cartridges, but that's not because they don't necessarily show, it's because I find I never try loading handguns balls out and never exceed the max loads from a manual. Most of my handgun shooting is close and fast, which wants low recoil and fast shot recovery so I am looking for the lightest load that will do the job, not the hottest. I have also found that handguns are not nearly as sensitive as rifles to the load combo and that there is usually a wide plateau of loads that will perform well. For the most part I am the weak link in accuracy, not the gun or load.
Mark
Mark
Not to be oinky, but I'm not sure how a chronograph can be used to measure pressure. Sure, a higher MV generally indicates higher pressure, but that varies from gun to gun.
The only pressure sign I've ever seen was flattened primers in a hot .357 Mag load. I agree with mmatocksx ; stick to the book loads and it's hard to go wrong.
The only pressure sign I've ever seen was flattened primers in a hot .357 Mag load. I agree with mmatocksx ; stick to the book loads and it's hard to go wrong.
Hotwheels81
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Signs vary between non existent and very pronounced with revolvers... I have seen an equal amount of sticky cases in lite loads and really hot loads... However I will say I have seen a .357 revolver shooting really warm loads actually pierce several primers with a heavy rectangular protrusion around the firing pin indent... and this was only discoverd while unloading the spent cases.
Proven load recipes are best worked up to in all cases.
Modern handgun reloading data for anything 44 magnum and below has become so neutered its hard to go wrong and wreck a gun or yourself. The older magnum factory loads used to be loaded very hot, not anymore. Partly due to the fact people down south keep trying to fit a magnum cartridge into a lightweight or flimsy or aluminum revolers, sometimes a combination of all 3.
You have nice straight little cases and minimal extraction power in a revolver, those brass will start to stick well before you start approaching dangerous pressures. But at that point, thats as far as you can go without using a hammer and a pin punch to get out your cases. For a modern gun shooting a "modern" cartridge its hard to go wrong.
Primer reading is like reading tea leaves (useless). Your cases will fail from mouth splits so dont bother counting how many times you reloaded them, use em till they fail. Its far easier to reload pistol shells then making loads for a rifle.
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That's my point. What are you working up to? When do you know in pistol if you've gone too far? Also, what if you want to use a particular bullet that doesn't have published load data? Where do you start and where do you end?
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Thanks for the insightful reply. So you are saying that with modern, well built firearms, there really is little danger of blowing them up? What makes you say that it is far easier to reload for pistol shells than rifle? Is it because there is more danger in blowing up a rifle?
ideally you would use a chronograph, but failing that you work up to the max load listed or what ever your pressure signs are.
for my 357mag and 500 mag it's a sticky case that i back off my powder charge. i have yet to flatten a primer like the factory hornady ammo does in my 500mag.
if i can't find load data for a bullet i'm using i just go off weight and use my own OAL. i cast for all my guns and if a bullet weight is close (eg 135gr 9mm bullet i just use 124gr or 147gr (safer to use heavier data with a lighter bullet)) and work up a load.
1. Modern guns with our current reloading date are plenty safe, only an idiot would blow one up now.
2. Carbide dies make a gigantic difference in the ease of reloading shells, no need to lube cases and combined with little piggy back volumetric powder measures like the Lee Auto disk you can assemble loads much quicker and easier then with a rifle calibers on a single stage press.
3. Those straight cased shells have a higher longevity compared to a bottle neck round, I've lost count on the reloads of my 357 magnum brass.
4. Theres tons of reloading tools out there dedicated to high volume reloading of pistol rounds.
Theres no bigger danger in reloading for pistol then there is for a rifle but realize that more care tends to be lavished on rifle loads. If I had to spend the time and effort reloading a single 38 special case as I do for me favourite 270 load I would give up in disgust. A guy might shoot a couple dozen rounds out of his 30-06 a year, while people shoot thousands of rounds through a handgun. You have to alter your reloading strategies accordingly.
It might take me 2-3 days to reload 300 rounds of target rifle ammo. While in those same 2-3 days (around march usually) I load one of those little empty burlap rice sacks full of 357 magnum reloads, amounts to around 1500 rounds. All on a single stage press!! I know I need to cave and get a progressive.
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Big difference between rifle and pistol reloading, especially with large pistol cases such as .45, .38 Spl and .357 that use a relatively small amount of powder compared to basically FILLING the rifle brass, is the danger of inadvertently DOUBLE CHARGING the pistol case! That is REALLY bad news! Either on a single stage or a progressive press that is a possibility! EVER VIGILANCE is required in powder charges to avoid blowing up pistols.
In your case with the 357 theres tons of established data available for most bullets under the sun, and even some wierd ones thanks to this cartridges use as a sillouette round. Anything jacketed between 125 and 180 grains has been covered with the 357 magnum ad nauseum.
In some cases you will come upon lead bullets that will not have readily found data due to the popularity of custom molds and newly introduced designs, If you get a copy of Lees Modern Reloading they'l recommend starting with jacketed data of an identical or slightly heavier weight bullet. And like Spawn-Inc mentiones, sometimes your OAL is not in the manuals, it will be dictated by your crimp groove.
An example of where I use my own gumption with the 357 was the old "6 grains of unique" for the 158 grain lead bullet even though theres no data in my latest manuals for that powder/bullet, that particular load was very mild to the point the cases weren't sealing the chamber, cases were sooty and accuracy was suffering. Looking at jacketed data I see that Unique can be loaded up to 8 grains in a 158 jacketed bullet so I upped my charge for the 158 grain lead bullet to 7 grains and got more velocity, a cleaner burn and good case sealing.
Another one is the difference of the Lyman 358477 data and my RCBS 358-150 SWC, the manual states that my OAL is 1.510 for the lyman but my crimp groove on the RCBS gets my OAL to 1.590. These are both iterations of the same bullet design, have identical weights and were close to the original 357 magnum bullet but theres differences in the crimp groove location (sometimes they are crimped over the front driving band) and the bullet nose length. I use the same data for the Lyman 358477 bullet under the RCBS slug which is seated farther out and it works fine.
Now a word on load data and the 357 magnum, let me voice my rage on how a wonderful cartridge has been treated.
When working up your heavy 357 magnum loads, the modern manuals data is plenty safe. The SAAMI max for these loads has been reduced over the years because they were shooting the newer lightweight revolvers loose over time and cracking forcing cones, no thanks to Smith and Wesson. Even 10 year old W 296 loads for the 357 magnum gave you no leeway whatsoever in your load data, you had one load in the manual and it was the maximum high pressure load, no starting load at all (they specifically stated not to try a reduced load). And those loads were mighty fireballs!!
But theres always some idiot, usually with rubber testicles on his truck.........Who has to start at max loads for all powders, even his little aluminum snubby. The 357 magnum is one of the most popular cartridges to reload, theres tens of thousands of these guns in the tens of thousands of hands of guys who purchase hundreds of thousands of truck balls.
The newest Lyman manual has eliminated these loads entirely and neutered a few other cartridges and eliminated the 45 colt "ruger only" loads entirely from their latest manual. Tens of thousands of people still continue to sensibly use these loads. But keep an eye out when the powder companies specifically state to no longer use the old established load data, like what happened with Blue Dot in some pistol calibers a few years ago.
The 357 magnum would be a manual onto itself if covered loads for every make of gun it was chambered in, whats safe for a Ruger Blackhawk or GP100 would shoot loose an aluminum J frame, whats safe in the ruger 77/357 bolt action or No.1 would probably wreck a 1894 marlin. The list goes on and on so the guys who write the manuals now give us the data that the weakest gun can handle (and they are very weak little aluminum revolvers) and leave it at that. This wasn't the case even with 15 year old manuals when there was a modicum of common sense and people took the time to work up a load and considered the gun they were shooting it out of. This is why companies like Buffalo Bore are making big bucks selling their "super" cartridges, they're not the watered down garbage that most factory loads are now even our the latest "warm" handloads.
Its gotten so bad that alot of 357 magnum factory loads wont even cycle those Desert Eagle pistols, while at the time they were introduced they operated fine.
Whisky used to be 100 proof as well, now most is 40% pee water so it doesn't over power the flavour of the coconut its served in
so much like our old magnum cartridges alot has deteriorated in what goes into the shot and what its served out of!! Compare load data from the 1990s to the newest stuff now, its still being reduced to lower pressures. Some load data from 10 years ago is well over the max load now, iwhich is also 100 fps slower and a few thousand CUP lighter pressure. Gotta protect the idiots of the world, or else rubber testicle sales would plummet. Think of the shareholders man!!!
Ok I'm better now.
In no way am I saying go over the modern max limits, or that theres a buffer zone of safety in the modern load data. I just want you to consider whats been happening with this cartridge due to some of the guns that are being manufactured for it now and how reloading is being approached by some of the dimmer bulbs, and why I consider the latest published 357 data to be very........very safe. Still I'm sure some safety police will be out with their nit pickery soon enough.
An excellent book to get is Ken Waters "Pet Loads" this massive bible will cover all sorts of reloading tricks. Combine that with a little common sense and you will have alot of fun in your handloading.
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