New to reloading…question on 30-30

I too have started reloading for 30-30. The fact of the matter is that I can't hit crap with a lever gun. I don't know why, maybe it's a mental block but I've given up trying. Because of that, I just cram the same 165gr cast lead bullets that I use for 30-06 and look up whatever data for whatever powder is left at the bottom of the emptiest jar! For me the 30-30 has become more about trying to cycle the action from the shoulder and shoot, than actually hitting the bullseye. Still a pile of fun and a nice little historic cartridge.
 
I inherited my father's well cared for Pre-64 Winchester carbine. The minute it was mine I decided to change a few things immediately. The rearsight was removed and replaced with a sight blank. A Williams Foolproof receiver sight was fitted to the back left rear of the action and a Williams Firesite replaced the factory bead front sight. (a full third smaller)
With all of this done, now I could shoot it much better than before.
 
bang_on_sk said:
Is a crimp recommended on the 30-30? Just buying the dies and was wondering which set to go with.
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have been using a crimp with no problems, my thought is the crimp holds better in the tube , also have made lots of different styles but round nose or poly tip /lead tip in tube only the rest are hand feed only.
 
Thanks, I guess with tube mags theres more pressure on the actual bullet so you run the risk of having it push into the casing.

Thanks again

airtruck63chev said:
have been using a crimp with no problems, my thought is the crimp holds better in the tube , also have made lots of different styles but round nose or poly tip /lead tip in tube only the rest are hand feed only.
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bang_on_sk said:
Thanks, I guess with tube mags theres more pressure on the actual bullet so you run the risk of having it push into the casing.

Thanks again
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That is the often repeated wisdom regarding tubular mags. I've used many different bullets in the 30-30 and have never found the need to crimp. The neck tension has always been high enough to hold the bullet securely under the mild recoil.

I've checked this a few times by keeping the mag topped up while firing many rounds and then checking the rounds in the mag. I've also done the same test with a partial mag. I've never seen one move yet so I no longer worry about it.

If you elect not to crimp you should be sure to check for bullet movement as well to make sure your combination of brass and dies is providing enough neck tension.

Some will say your d!ck will fall off if you don't crimp but mine is still there....
 
I would only add here that little or no crimp could cause velocity & accuracy issues. It all comes down to neck tension & chamber tolerances I believe. This may not be readily apparent unless you test them quite a bit at a rifle range at longer distances while measuring group size and/or chronograph your loads. But at regular forested hunting ranges, this might never be an issue or even realized by 100% successful deer hunters.

maybe

Edit: Another mild cartridge that has a similar long neck for calibre bullet is the 222 Remington and it has a sterling accuracy reputation.
 
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fralic76 said:
I have the new lyman manual on order. Is this a good manual or should have I gotten a different one.
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You have selected a good manual.
In spite of popular opinion on CGN, my firm opinion is one good reloading manual is all that you require.
I will go further, and state that the more manuals you have, the more confused you will become. For example manuals by bullet makers will make it appear that you have to have their bullets and the loads they give will not be applicable to another make of bullet.
This is nothing but confusing information. A non biased manual will state a given load for a certain weight of bullet in that calibre and the brand of bullet can be interchanged with any brand of bullet you have, in that weight.
A 30-30 is a very simple, good calibre to start reloading for. There are, for the most part, only two weights of bullets made for the 30-30, 150 grain and 170 grain. They will have flat, or round noses, to prevent an accidental discharge in the magazine tube, from recoil. Bullets designed for the 30-30 will also have a cannalure groove around them.
The most popular bullet for a 30-30 is 170 grains.
Several types of medium burning powder will all work very well. The old standby for 170 grain bullets was the easy to remember formula, 30 grains of 3031. If I were starting out to load for the 30-30 I would buy only a can of 3031.
Full length resize the cases, put any standard large rifle primer in them, load the charge of powder, as determined from your reloading manual and seat the bullets so your seating die will crimp the bullet in the cannalure.
That's it.
Why would you need, or want, any more loading manuals?
 
New to reloading…question on 30-30

H4831 said:
You have selected a good manual.
In spite of popular opinion on CGN, my firm opinion is one good reloading manual is all that you require.
I will go further, and state that the more manuals you have, the more confused you will become. For example manuals by bullet makers will make it appear that you have to have their bullets and the loads they give will not be applicable to another make of bullet.
This is nothing but confusing information. A non biased manual will state a given load for a certain weight of bullet in that calibre and the brand of bullet can be interchanged with any brand of bullet you have, in that weight.
A 30-30 is a very simple, good calibre to start reloading for. There are, for the most part, only two weights of bullets made for the 30-30, 150 grain and 170 grain. They will have flat, or round noses, to prevent an accidental discharge in the magazine tube, from recoil. Bullets designed for the 30-30 will also have a cannalure groove around them.
The most popular bullet for a 30-30 is 170 grains.
Several types of medium burning powder will all work very well. The old standby for 170 grain bullets was the easy to remember formula, 30 grains of 3031. If I were starting out to load for the 30-30 I would buy only a can of 3031.
Full length resize the cases, put any standard large rifle primer in them, load the charge of powder, as determined from your reloading manual and seat the bullets so your seating die will crimp the bullet in the cannalure.
That's it.
Why would you need, or want, any more loading manuals?
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I have Hornady 170gr FP bullets on order, picked up a can of IMR 4320 (the only powder I could find at my local shops, it is in the manual). Just waiting for the bullets to show up.
 
The Lyman manual is indeed one of the very best, however, I like options. My shelves are filled with reloading manuals from a variety of sources, and I use them all, as well as online research.
However, when I started out, I had only one, and it served me well. It's only the diversification of my rifle collection, and the demands of my experimentation that drives me to buy more manuals.

One manual does not cover all powders, all bullets etc, in fact many do not cover all the cartridges I use, or have used.

Someone mentioned cast bullets, and I hope you will eventually try it. Cast bullets in the 30-30 can be pushed to full factory velocity, and I have taken several deer with them.

There are a lot of fancy bullets on the market to play with, however, I stick with the 170 gr Hornady Interlock. It has never failed me, on deer, bear, or even moose.

If you intend to hunt, and not just target shoot your 30-30, I would definitely crimp your bullets into the crimp groove. This will take some learning on your part, a bad crimp is worse than none at all .
If you hunt, you will be loading and unloading those rounds possibly many times, and eventually, you will find some shoved back into the cartridge.

The model 94 Winchester, (mine anyway) will chamber and fire these just fine. You will read that you should not fire rounds that are shoved back like this, as it raises pressure. It does. However, I have never had an issue, it seems to be well within the safety tolerances of the '94.
When you are just starting out, you may find it happens a fair bit. It's a matter of refining your technique. It will come in time. do not be afraid to ask.
 
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I have never crimped 30 30 never had a problem however i always wash lube out of the case necks. Do they make a collet neck sizer for 30 30? I wouldnt use it because of neck tension variability i found on another caliber. I use rl 7
 
porpoise said:
I have never crimped 30 30 never had a problem however i always wash lube out of the case necks. Do they make a collet neck sizer for 30 30? I wouldnt use it because of neck tension variability i found on another caliber. I use rl 7
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I use a Lee Collet Die in 30-30 without trouble. It extends brass life and reduces stretching (one in the same I guess) and skipping the lube step is a joy. I fire a lot of 30-30 with cast bullets so I already have the extra step of flaring the case mouth. Being able to skip the lube step speeds things up.

I guess I agree with JYC that it's a good idea to crimp rounds that will be cycled a lot. (I still don't bother though, I've never had a bullet move yet). I disagree that a setback bullet in a rifle cartridge increases pressure whatsoever. It will in a pistol cartridge but the effect in a rifle cartridge is debatable. A crimp however, may increase pressure.

I favour RL 15 in the 30-30 with heavier bullets (185 cast).
 
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One check for neck tension is to simply grasp the case and bullet in you fingers and try to turn it. If you can, you have insufficient neck tension, or your crimp is too hard, and you have slightly buckled the case.

The Lee Factory crimp die, is a wonderfull tool that makes perfect crimps every time for me. I use one, in addition to my Lyman reloading dies.

As to bullets being shoved back, as I said earlier, if you hunt, and unload reload your rifle a lot it will happen, even with factory rounds.
 
New to reloading…question on 30-30

Well I shot some of the first reloads that I maded, it didn't turn out the way that I hoped. I reloaded and shot 20 rounds in geoups of 5. They were all shooting low by 7" with groups of 3.5" to 5.25". I used the data from the Lyman Reloading Book (49th edition) for the data needed, I'm using IMR 4320 powder. It states in the book to start with 24.5 and a max of 28.0, I used 25.2 and 26.6 (using dippers). The sheet that came with my Lee reloading dies says that for the same powder to start with 30.3 and a max of 32.0. My question is what information should I use?
 
fralic76 said:
Well I shot some of the first reloads that I maded, it didn't turn out the way that I hoped. I reloaded and shot 20 rounds in geoups of 5. They were all shooting low by 7" with groups of 3.5" to 5.25". I used the data from the Lyman Reloading Book (49th edition) for the data needed, I'm using IMR 4320 powder. It states in the book to start with 24.5 and a max of 28.0, I used 25.2 and 26.6 (using dippers). The sheet that came with my Lee reloading dies says that for the same powder to start with 30.3 and a max of 32.0. My question is what information should I use?
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That is a very light load. Too light to expect too accuracy from.
I don't see the weight bullet you are using, but even if you are using 170 grain, Hodgdon's on line give 30 to 32 grains. Any lighter bullet would need more powder.
 
Here's a copy of Hodgdon's on line chart, showing a great variety of loads for the 30-30 Winchester, with 170 grain bullets.
For many years the standard, go to load for the 30-30, was 30 grains of 3031. I see on this chart that Hodgdon's show only 29.2 as maximum, so you are certainly safe there.
If you plan on doing much with the 30-30, I would get their new LVR powder, which seems to do wonders for a 30-30.

170 GR. SIE FN Hodgdon CFE 223 .308" 2.540" 32.2 2115 30,600 PSI 35.0 2258 36,800 PSI
170 GR. SIE FP Winchester 760 .308" 2.550" 33.6 1975 30,000 CUP
170 GR. SIE FP Hodgdon LVR .308" 2.550" 33.0 2145 28,900 CUP 36.3C 2332 35,400 CUP
170 GR. SIE FP Hodgdon Varget .308" 2.550" 29.5 1976 30,200 CUP 33.0 2168 36,500 CUP
170 GR. SIE FP IMR IMR 4320 .308" 2.550" 30.0 1976 35,400 CUP 32.5 2068 36,300 CUP
170 GR. SIE FP IMR IMR 4064 .308" 2.550" 29.8 1991 30,700 CUP 31.7 2090 35,300 CUP
170 GR. SIE FP Winchester 748 .308" 2.550" 32.0 2145 36,000 CUP
170 GR. SIE FP Hodgdon BL-C(2) .308" 2.550" 32.5 2048 27,900 CUP 36.0 2227 34,700 CUP
170 GR. SIE FP IMR IMR 4895 .308" 2.550" 29.8 1938 30,500 CUP 31.7 2068 35,300 CUP
170 GR. SIE FP Hodgdon H335 .308" 2.550" 27.5 1934 29,000 CUP 30.5 2086 36,300 CUP
170 GR. SIE FP Hodgdon H4895 .308" 2.550" 27.5 1947 28,200 CUP 30.5 2138 35,200 CUP
170 GR. SIE FP IMR IMR 8208 XBR .308" 2.550" 27.8 2052 36,400 CUP 30.9 2181 37,500 CUP
170 GR. SIE FP IMR IMR 3031 .308" 2.550" 27.5 1959 27,500 CUP 29.2 2085 35,800 CUP
170 GR. SIE FP Hodgdon Benchmark .308" 2.550" 25.3 1894 32,200 CUP 27.0 2001 36,100 CUP
170 GR. SIE FP IMR IMR 4198 .308" 2.550" 21.0 1800 27,400 CUP 22.3 1896 32,100 CUP
170 GR. SIE FP Hodgdon H4198 .308" 2.550" 20.5 1764 27,300 CUP 22.5 1918 32,600 CUP


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New to reloading…question on 30-30

I have printed this off but wanted to know if I should use the information that comes with the dies or the information that is in the lyman book? The data that is with the dies shows a starting load that is higher then the max that is in the lyman book.
 
If you're seriously interested in getting the most out of your .30-30 have a look at Sam Fadala's book "Winchester's .30-30, Model 94.
Everything from history of the round, tuning for accuracy, reloading etc.

Try 37 or 38 grs of H335 with a 150 gr bullet. The most accurate I've found in my M94.
 
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