New to reloading, looking for some help with my 6.5x55 CG M96

ryanloco

ryanloco

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Hi, looking for some advice/suggestions.

New to the reloading bench, and I’m looking for some specific input & help on my 6.5x55 for hunting

I have a sporter GC M96 with a 22” barrel.

After reading some of the posts on the forum – I am set to start with 140 gr Sierra Gamekings and RL22 powder. My brass is a mix of Norma and Lapua with a few Dominion cases.

From what I’ve read , the optimal load is somewhere around 44 - 45 grains ( but I have read people loading up to 48.2 grains of RL22 in older Swede’s which seems a bit high?).

The Alliant site for a Military action Swede suggests 40 grains – up to 45 grains in a commercial
Does anyone have any experience using RL 22 with/in an M96 CG?

Also, when developing and testing loads what type of variation in groupings can you realistically expect to see between test loads that differ by .2 (for example) grains i.e. how do you know when you’ve hit that sweet spot your rifle likes?

I don’t have a chrony, available to me.

Unfortunately I only have 30 cases presently (planning to get more) – but my initial plan was to load (for example) 10 @ 43 grains, 10@ 44 grains, and then 10 at 45 grains and see how the groups looked. Would you expect to see noticeable differences that would help drill down to your next round of testing (for example say 10@ 44.2, 10 @ 44.5, 10 @ 44.8)? Any other suggestions on ways to proceed?
 
I normally shoot 5 shot groups to test loads. I don't know about a 0.2 grain difference but with a 0.5 grain difference which is what I use for testing I can have up to a 1/2 MOA difference between loads. Normally it's closer to 1/4 MOA difference.

I do my tests with a new rifle in stages. I'll divide the difference from start load to max load by 5 and load 5 each of those so I get 5 groups of 5 to test (I usually end up pulling the max one apart so I have stopped preloading those until I know if the next down from max is having pressure issues or not). The one that proves most accurate from that I will test with 0.5 grain differences up and down (or two if the next test load already tested as more than 1 grain away). I've never really gone past that since I'm not much of a benchrest shooter; I'm looking for hunting/plinking accuracy (depending on the rifle). Going down to 0.5 grain step tests I can usually get down to 1 MOA which is all I am really after in a rifle. In the case of my M96 I am currently sitting around 1/2 to 3/4 MOA using Hornady match bullets (bought them for fun).

The Swedish Mausers where proof tested to 160% maximum pressure when made so if it's still in good to excellent condition then it should easily be able to handle above commercial loads. The optimum accuracy in my M96 is about the middle of the military action load data (I use Hodgdon powders though). You don't really need a chrony if accuracy is what you're after; just watch out for a stiff bolt lift/pull as a sign of dangerous pressure.
 
Did that with my Swede years ago using .5 gr. increments with 3031.
Could visibly see groups open and tighten as charge weight varied (of course, I'm a factor too, but.....)
Found My load somewhere in the middle as far as group size. I'm not hunting with it so velocity is secondary in my case.
Not sure how much diff. I'd have seen with increments of .2, but I'd say you're on the right track.
5 rounds of each might be a good start, so you could try 6 different loads if you wish, and narrow it down from there.
 
I would do the first traverse using 0.5gr increments to see the approximate sweet spot(s), then work at 0.2gr either side of the best charge weights from the first test.


Mark
 
Not much loading experience, but here's what I've been doing with my rifles.

Starting at Min suggested load work up 5 @ .5 grain increments stopping at .5 to 1 grain below max (that's a personal preference). Shoot and find what seems to give the best groups. I am then going to work up 5 @ .1 grain increments starting at .5 grain below the best grouping to .5 grain above the best grouping to see if there is something better. The last step may be useless, but I like shooting so I don't mind.

As an example:

No4 MK1 .303 British

5 @ 37g - group was just under 2"
5 @ 37.5g - group was just under 2"
5 @ 38g - group was 1.5"
5 @ 38.5g - group was about 3.5"
5 @ 39g - group was about 5"
5 @ 39.5g - not even on an 8.5x11" piece of paper
5 @ 40g - didn't shoot
5 @ 40.5g - didn't shoot

I'll work up 5 round groups starting at 37.5g and incrementing by .1g until I reach 38.5g just to see if there is something a little better in the mix.

I could easily stop and use 37, 37.5 or 38 grains and be happy with the results, but I like to experiment, test and learn. so I will take it the extra step.
 
Published data for R22/6.5x55/140gr, is all over the map.
Barrel bore diameters(in rifles that I have measured) vary from .2640" to .2665".
Throats may be short enough to jam the bullet into the leade at around 3.1" OAL, ... or so long as to not even begin to start the bullet into the case mouth, when one closes the bolt on a dummy test round.
Headspace varies by up to .012" on samples I've measured.
There may be major fouling buildup ... "carbon ring", in the bore just in front of the chamber. I had one 1900 Oberndorf M96 that was constricted by over 2 thou., it had 'hard bolt lift' overpressure ... with a mild start load. Expanded the primer pocket on Lapua brass. That, is over proof load pressure territory. Scary.
Component bullet dia. varies from .263" to ... .2645".

All this ^, to suggest that one does his own work-up, to one's own definition of max pressure, in one's own individual rifle.

An older loading manual I have in front of me(Hodgdon #26), say's MAX 49.0 grains of R22 with 140's. That is over the top, IMO, ... NOT RECOMMENDED BY ME ... however, there is one rifle that I know. My son's M38 sporter. It prints small groups, with no pressure signs whatsoever, loaded with 49/R22/140Amax/Lapua/BR2. At 20+ reloads, the primer pockets are still as tight as new.
This particular rifle has a loose .266" bore, a generous chamber, .010" headspace, and a very long leade.
The "tolerance stack" is what allows this particular one to digest more powder than others at safe pressure.
Contrast to the Oberndorf, with it's carbon ring, .2645" bore, min. chamber, and short leade ... that one blew a primer with 5.5 grains less R22 and the same bullet.

The hottest 6.5x55 loads I've ever shot were factory Norma 139gr. They are some steamy. 2800fps advertised vel..

Many M96/M38 Swedes I've played with thrive on 47.5 +- grains of R22 and the Amax ... 2650 fps, ... that long shank bullet will seat deeper into the leade, while still feeding from the mag.
The Horn 140SP is almost as accurate, and a very good game bullet.

:cheers:

Edit: Hercules reloaders guide lists 48.1 grains R22 as max with a 140 gr bullet. 44,400 CUP @ 2700fps, from a 24" barrel.
 
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Thanks for all the feedback..

WRT to RL 22... Would you suggest starting at 40 grains and working up from there, or would something closer to 44 be a better starting charge?

My brass is new to me, so I plan to full length size, and then neck size after my first test batch. I am planning to test seat a bullet to determine my OAL for seating. Any other tips/suggestions ?

Oh, also any local sources for Lapua brass?

Thanks
Ryan
 
What make of brass do you have now ? I would feel pretty good starting at 44, I ended using 46.7 when I was reloading for an old Swede. I like to leave at least a caliber's worth of the shank into the neck..I would start checking at around 3.05 and test from there to see how close the lands are...chances there will still be some jump. The factory stuff I had test was shorter than 3" and it still shot really well....just one of those "happy chamberings".
 
good, The norma and lapua will have the correct measurement at the base for your chamber..not sure about the dominion never measured them...most of the north american stuff is more in the .473 range instead of .480 ish. Pick one, work up a load. Dont' think you will find Lapua local but you never know.
 
The hottest 140gr / RE22 load I have seen listed is the same is vviking’s – 48.1gr, from the Lee Manual 2nd ed.

The most accurate load I have fired in my T3 6.5x55 is a 140gr Hornady SP over 46gr RE22, 76.5mm OAL and CCI200 primer. It runs consistently well sub-MOA. It delivers 2530 fps average from the Tikka barrel which is just short of 23”. I haven’t actually tried anything higher yet. It seems many reloaders find 45-47gr RE22 to be a very good ‘node’ in their 6.5’s with 140gr bullets.

My next trial is a 130gr Matrix FB and RE22 and CCI 250’s. Starting at 46gr and I am sure I will be able to work up to 48gr without any problems at all (some guys go quite a bit hotter in modern actions).
 
Just checked my brass.

The Lapua measures at .478 , the norma and dominion are all around .475 -.477

I also found 20 Remington brass from a box of core/lockt's I ran through when I picked up the Swede. I know the brass is fire formed to my rifle, but they all measure .471 ish at the base.
 
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I used to compete with a m96 in 6,5x55. I found that lapua brass was always a little hotter than
norma brass with the same powder load.
 
Two things:

1) You'll have trouble doing a load increment test with different types of brass.
2) Your rifle is a sporter (I presume). There is a 75% chance that the bedding is sub optimal, which will limit your ability to "tune" your rifle to a load. Suggest you do an abbreviated test with a few loads (bullet weights and powders, if possible), just to see if it shoots.
 
Cosmic,

It is a sporter, built by a gunsmith (incl. the bedding job). I'm extremely happy with the groups I get with factory ammo. Happy enough to make me part ways with my .270win

How much variation would you expect between the Norma and Lapua brass? Enough to suggest developing a load would be a futile exercise (aside from the practice of going through the mechanics of reloading - for a novice)..?
 
If you weigh the Norma and Lapua...the heavier will likely have less internal capacity and that will make a difference if you start mixing them up especially as the pressures get up there.

I had a bunch of remington brass when I started out and now I only use them for 85gr. plinking loads. If I work up a load Ill use the same make of brass and then I know exactly how it behaves (at least at that temperature)
 
Perhaps I will noodle around with some lighter loads to start, and try and find some additional Lapua brass to make developing a good hunting load worthwhile..
 
Agree with cosmic;
Hirsch Precision distributes/retails Lapua brass. If anyone has it in stock, it'll be them. Mine came from Epp's, they have it when they have it.
Unless you have a loose chamber, I doubt you'll see any difference in accuracy using Lapua brass, before and after fireforming.

The M94 action is not a particularely stiff one, it needs to be well bedded(no stress), to group to the cart's potential.
Place a fingertip on the intersection of wood and metal at the ring or tang, alternately loosen and resnug the guard screws. Anything more than a very few thou. of movement detected by your fingertip when the screw snugs up .... the bedding is not optimal, nor will accuracy be, no matter how many load combos are tested.

Long throated M96's don't seem very sensetive to seating depth. I've given up on tuning loads that way. Seating depth is usually to max mag feed length, around 3.2" OAL. That is one reason I favor Hornady bullet's, they have those nice long shanks ... more bullet in the neck for a secure cartridge, and the ogive closer to the leade as well.
Powder charges, however, it is sensetive to. I vary in .2gr increments about either side of an accurate node, and try to settle in the middle. Nodes are often about a half grain wide. Testing is done at 200yds or farther, many 6.5's group tighter(in MOA) the farther out they go. Some will print the same group size at 200 as they do at 100.
Runout matters, for an interesting experiment, try culling out the most crooked rounds and try a 200yd. group beside the dead straight ones. Eyeopener.
 
ryanloco.
After you've fallen hopelessly in love with your ###y Swede vixen, (and you will), pick up one of Tradeex's $100 M38 barrels and screw;) it on. They have tighter chambers and shorter throats, and will jam the leade with those long Hornady's, or139gr Scenars, at about 3.2"OAL.

Stunningly accurate.
 
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