New to reloading

redman

redman

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Hi all,

Since I got my very first and only rifle back in April (see here), I've been humbled by the cost of match grade ammo. The ones I've been using are Federal's Gold Medal in 168gr and RUAG Swiss P Target also in 168gr - both 2$+ a pop! It does perform well however.

The rifle is a Blaser R93 LRS2 in .308 Winchester. My goal is target shooting, not hunting.

I have very base knowledge of realoding/handloading and I'd just like to know how to begin making some match quality ammo of my own. Things like:
- The equipment I need
- The accessories I need
- The raw materials I need
- The cost of the above
- The techniques to use
- Safety measures to apply

Would be a must. The differences in consistency between single-stage presses and those "automated-type" devices (à la Dillon) would help me too.

Even simply pointing me to the right resource/thread would be appreciated.

Many thanks :)
 
Your best bet is to pick up a good reloading manual, and there are lots of them out there. They will outline all of the questions you ask in your post other than the cost of equipment. I think the Lyman manual is a good one for beginners to start with.
 
Look into an RCBS Beginner's Kit. Gives you everything you need less dies and shell holder. No trimmer either. Runs about $500. Comes with a Speer manual, but buy the Lyman book too. Not that the Speer book is bad. The Lyman book is just more versatile.
After that loading match quality ammo is a matter of technique. Starting with weighing each powder charge and having the brass all the same length.
You can get 168 grain match bullets from several makers with no fuss, but they're not cheap. Then primers and powder. IMR4064 gives extremely consistent accuracy with .308 match bullets.
Once you get that far, you'll have to work up the load. Do this.
Beginning with the starting load given in your manual, load 5 rounds only. Go up by half a grain of powder, loading 5 of each keeping them separate until you get to the max load in your manual.
Then go shooting. Shoot at 100 yards, for group only, slowly and deliberately off a bench.
Change targets between strings of 5 and allow time for the barrel to cool.
When you find the best group, sight in.
 
IMO the Lyman kit is a better value than the rcbs. Though I must say that you can get started for a lot less. First, skip the automated presses. Way too much money and not enough control.

By a press (look at used to save some dough, make sure it is sturdy and straight), dies (a three die set with a neck sizer is a good idea) a scale (I like the hornady balance scale +-$50) a priming tool (Lee not RCBS) case trimmer (again I like the Lee one, it is very cheap and you can't screw up your cases) powder funnel and case lube pad.

Other stuff neeeded: cases (all same type/brand) primers, powder and bullets.

Skip the electronic scale until much later (or never).

Buy a good reloading book (Lyman is good, so is nosler) that describes the reloading process.

Reload.
 
Go single stag, progessives have problem throwing some powders consistantly. 168's are ####e out past 800 yards, they might work at 900 yards but are junk at 1000.
When I load test, I use one piece of white bristol board with an aiming mark. Like sunray said, 5 rounds of each load.
Step 1.Shoot 5 slowly (one shot per minute or so) and let the barrel cool down.
Step 2. Walk down to your target and record the load on the target, leave your target there. Go back to the firing line and move your sights up 5 minutes, shoot another group. Repeat step 1.
Step 3, move sights left 5 minutes shoot group repeat step 1
Step 4, move sights down 5 minutes repete step one...........
Keep going around the target in 5 minute sight adjustments. You will have room the 9 group, 5 MOA apart. This way you have a quick visual or all 9 groups on one sheet of bristol board.
Once you find the load that works best go home and load 5 more of that load then 5 more +.2 gr and 5 more -.2 gr. Go back to the range and test these 3 loads. Find the load from these three that shoot the best.
Now start playing with seating depths.
 
The Lyman manual that's being referred to, is it the "Lyman 48th Edition Reloading Handbook"?

I never understood completely what a die is; is it basically what resizes a used casing back to its orginal size? (I wasn't lying in the thread title!)

So, in the end, small differences in load will yield different accuracy, and it's a question of tuning said load for my rifle/caliber, correct?

One thing that I forgot to note is that there are nowhere near 800, 900 or 1000 yard public ranges in my area; I'll be shooting in the 200 - 300 yard range, and possibly go on someone's private land for longer ranges although not as often.

Thanks for the answers.
 
For your dies and other accuracy items(once you've got the press and other basics) you should check out Sinclair Int'l......they supply the type of equip. benchrest and other accuracy nuts demand. Redding and Forster dies including straight line seaters, bushing neck dies, micrometer adjustable dies, case neck turning equip, etc.
 
If you are serious, and you have a bit of $, all right, a lot of dollars, look at the Redding competition sets.
There is nothing wrong with any of the other equipment on the market, and it makes excellent ammo too, but, if you want to go the extra mile, there are options.
If your goal is target, and you are serious about it, the beginner sets may not be the best way to go. They make accurate ammo, but they are not making the fine tuned bench rest quality ammo you sound like you want.
You may have to get your setup piece meal, do some research, and get the individual pieces you want. It's expensive, to go this route be warned, and the gains over the cheap kits are minimal.
The other thing, is that technique is as important as the equipment. Only time, research, and experience will make the very best.
 
The Lyman 48th Edition is out of print. They've just released their 49th Edition. A 48th will do nicely though.
"...beginner sets..." They do not come with lesser quality equipment. They just give you all the kit at once. Press, scale, etc.
"...is it...a question of tuning said load for my rifle..." Yep and yep.
"...small differences in load will yield..." It can. Half a grain can make the difference between a one hole group and not.
"...on someone's private land..." You'll have to be very sure about what's behind whatever back stop there may be. Look into the Province of Quebec Rifle Association. It's the Provincial DCRA affiliate. http://www.pqra.org/
 
I guess I'll specify that I'm won't be shooting benchrest-style with a pedestal + rear bag type contraption. It'll just be a sandbag (and bipod, when it gets here) in front + my fist holding the "hook" under the stock (see my rifle pics in my first post). I guess you could call it "au natural".

As Johnny Y Canuck pointed out (and as I asked in my first post), technique is important - is this covered in the Lyman manual? What about safety? I take it I can't be dragging on a Marlboro while doing this.

I've been told that my rifle has "no camming action" (not sure what that means, any takers?) but that the bottom line is that I'll be needing to do full length casing resizing. Does that mean I need a particular type of die?

If I go with an RCBS starter kit and Lee for dies, shell holder and trimmer with a Hornady scale, is that all I need in terms of "fixed" investment s(i.e. not primers, powder, bullets and casings)?

Thanks again :)
 
redman said:
As Johnny Y Canuck pointed out (and as I asked in my first post), technique is important - is this covered in the Lyman manual? What about safety? I take it I can't be dragging on a Marlboro while doing this. :)
Click to expand...

All reloading manuals will cover the safety procedures for reloading. It's actually a simple process once you understand it all. You're right, smoking is not something that you should be doing while reloading. Sipping a beer probably isn't a good idea either. A person just needs to pay attention do what they're doing and follow the instructions shown in the reloading manual. For safety reasons, it's necessary to have more than one reloading manual (or at least check some of the reloading sites on the Internet) so that you can cross reference the data for the powder charge. For example, one manual may show a maximum charge of 60.0 grains for a given powder, another manual may show 63.0 grains. If you notice a big difference, it's worth checking into further.

I guess I don't really understand what you mean by "technique." Sure, there are a few tricks that people learn along the way, but it's pretty hard to screw up reloading once you understand how to adjust your dies, etc.

redman said:
I've been told that my rifle has "no camming action" (not sure what that means, any takers?) but that the bottom line is that I'll be needing to do full length casing resizing. Does that mean I need a particular type of die?:)
Click to expand...

Standard dies are almost always full length resizing, but you can still adjust them to neck size only. There are also small base dies available for rifles like semiautos, which will ensure the rifle will feed properly.

redman said:
If I go with an RCBS starter kit and Lee for dies, shell holder and trimmer with a Hornady scale, is that all I need in terms of "fixed" investment s(i.e. not primers, powder, bullets and casings)?:)
Click to expand...

The RCBS starter kit comes with a scale, so you won't need to buy the Hornady one. Personally if I bought an RCBS starter kit, I would also go with RCBS dies. But yes, essentially the RCBS starter kit will have everything you need to get started other than dies / shell holder. You will eventually want to pick up a few other tools (like others have mentioned, calipers will be needed), and maybe a brass tumbler.
 
Somehow here, the cart got in front of the horse! Anyone who has never had a rifle, so presumably hasn't been shooting, until a couple of months ago, is absolutely flushing money down the drain by using top quality match ammunintion, or trying to load match ammunition.
Just take a year to learn to shoot first. Use standard run of the mill ammo, or standard components loaded in the regular way.
 
H4831 said:
Somehow here, the cart got in front of the horse! Anyone who has never had a rifle, so presumably hasn't been shooting, until a couple of months ago, is absolutely flushing money down the drain by using top quality match ammunintion, or trying to load match ammunition.
Just take a year to learn to shoot first. Use standard run of the mill ammo, or standard components loaded in the regular way.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't presume he has never shot a rifle before. I know guys with decades of shooting experience in the army that have never owned their own rifle. I have to disagree about shooting crappy ammo also. At what point do you start thinking if you had better ammo you could shoot better? The rifle that he has from the pictues should be able to deliver right out of the box with good ammo. If you are shooting 4 MOA surplus crap you will never know what the rifle can do. Shoot good quality ammo and you take that out of the equation.
 
I've done some shooting before purchasing my own firearm... Both with compressed air and gunpowder. Right now I group around the ½-¾ MOA mark; at 200 yards, the difference between the factory match ammo and regular ammo (Remington UMC) is very obvious. I do appreciate shooting technique, however; I suspect myself for lousy shots way before I suspect my equipment. However, over the course of several hundred shots, the match has consistently outperformed the UMC since I've started using it. Example: at 200 yards, with the Federal Match ammo, I'll hit a 12 ga. 2¾ casing from the first try; with the UMC, after three tries, I couldn't hit it once, not to mention that on paper the UMC groups noticeably larger. Could be that my rifle doesn't like 150 gr. bullets (I have a 1:11 twist).

To get to some other points:
- Brass tumbler: that's to get all the burnt powder/residue out of the inside of used casings, right? What's a decent one?
- What are the differences between S-type and body dies (the Redding ones that have been mentioned)?
- Caliper: that's to check that I've re-sized the brass properly, right?

As always, thanks for the input, everyone :)
 
The art of shooting

http://demigodllc.com/
Use this link and you will find a series of articles on "Practical Long-Range Rifle Shooting" where solid, useful information is available on the following topics:

Part I - Rifle & Equipment

Part II - Optics

Part III - Shooting

Another great sight for all information related to firearms, etc is
http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html
 
redman said:
- Brass tumbler: that's to get all the burnt powder/residue out of the inside of used casings, right? What's a decent one?
- What are the differences between S-type and body dies (the Redding ones that have been mentioned)?
- Caliper: that's to check that I've re-sized the brass properly, right?

As always, thanks for the input, everyone :)
Click to expand...

A tumbler is a "nice to have" thing, not a "must have." There are plenty on the market some for as little as $50.
A full length "S" type die uses a bushing and full length resizes the case as opposed to a neck sizing die that just resizes the neck. Or another brand if die that resizes everything but does not allow you to control the neck tension.

A body die resizes just the body. You can run a loaded round through them to bring the case back to size and bump the shoulder back. Very useful if you have several rifles of the same caliber and have only neck sized your brass. This will eliminate you from pulling several hundred rounds that are not resized properly. They are cheap compared to several hours of your time pulling bullets and reloading again. I recommend one for every caliber you load for.

The calipers are used to measure your brass for length, so you will know when to trim. Check OAL of your loaded rounds, measure neck diameters and case wall thickness.
 
Scott_N said:
Standard dies are almost always full length resizing, but you can still adjust them to neck size only.
Click to expand...

I've inherited my Dad's reloading gear and I'm trying to learn about all this. He left me a seating die and a FL die in Win .308, and I've been trying to figure out why there was no neck sizing die as well. Your post may have the answer, but how would I figure out if the die has been set to neck size only, and if it hasn't been, how would I go about doing so?
And why would there have been no case trimmer? Would that be because the die has been adjusted to neck size and therefore the length of the brass stays the same?
 
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Hey Redman,

Welcome to the best sport in the world.

The best advise I've seen here yet is to contact your provincial rifle association.

They will not only be able to help you set up your reloading gear, they will help you learn to shoot that beautiful rifle like a champ in no time.

Find mentor in the PQRA and save yourself a pile of time, money and frustration.

Once again, welcome aboard.

V7
 
stevebc said:
I've inherited my Dad's reloading gear and I'm trying to learn about all this. He left me a seating die and a FL die in Win .308, and I've been trying to figure out why there was no neck sizing die as well. Your post may have the answer, but how would I figure out if the die has been set to neck size only, and if it hasn't been, how would I go about doing so?
And why would there have been no case trimmer? Would that be because the die has been adjusted to neck size and therefore the length of the brass stays the same?
Click to expand...

stevebc, I'm not sure what kind of dies you have, but all of mine are RCBS. To neck size with their dies, the die is not screwed in as close to the press's ram. I think the RCBS instructions state to screw the seating die with the press's ram fully extended, then back the die off 1/4 turn for full length sizing, or 1/2 turn to just neck size.
 
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