New Vanguard Won't Shoot Worth a Damn?

[fuzzy39]

Don’t trust cabelas putting on your mounts and scope. Get the Wheeler torque driver next time it’s on sale and so your own mounts. It sounds like you can shoot so I’d check scope/mounts first for sure.

Also, that Herters ammo is complete and utter garbage. I’ve shot the 150 and 180 grain stuff in 3 different 308s that shoot easy under MOA for me and the stuff grouped 2-4 inches! This was even in a Tikka T3X!

I’ve owned 4 Weatherby vanguards over the years and every one shot sub MOA with the right loads. Never would shoot any loads worse than 1.5 inch 100 yard groups on average.

I never have relieved the barrel pressure on any of them. That would be a last resort for me if I tried everything else.

Good luck

 

[boxhitch]

"Got down to 3" groups at 100 yards at the end of the session."

Sounds like a ladder test with handloads?

 

[mikeelliot]

Yeah how many rounds did you fire? How long between groups? Pretty light barrel, will be warm/hot after 3ish.

Seen so many guys over the years burn 2 boxes of ammo to "sight in" only to chase the smoking hot barrel all over the paper.

As said rule out scope mount, action screw, clean it up, bore sight before shooting.

 

[powerbaitron]

I bet that 20 moa base is loose… ussually some factory lube on the homes and they obvs didn’t lock tite it. Try a diff scope, try new rings and bases then if all that fails it’s the rifle. Look at the crown…

 

[Mazeofmystery]

Thanks for all the responses guys, i actually really appreciate the help.

For the next batch of questions:

- everything looked fine to me for the gaps. I checked to make sure there wasn't any wiggle, and there didn't appear to be any.

- i really want to get a home gunsmithing setup (for basic stuff). Torque wrenches and levels and all that are definitely in the future for me.
And i read/watched a LOT of reviews on so many different rifles and manufacturers, and the Vanguard was what I came to as a conclusion. Great reviews, right price range for me, etc. I'ts really frustrating that this is happening, especially when i KNOW i can shoot, and i KNOW these firearms can be shooters.
The only reason i tried cheapo ammo is because i know every rifle has it's favourites. If herter's shot well, i would use it haha.

- i was firing 3 shot groups, and i would wait 5 - 10 minutes between groups, or until the barrel felt cool to the touch. I fired 40 rounds total over 4 hours.

- is it dumb if i dont know what a crown is?

 

[Suther]

Thanks for all the responses guys, i actually really appreciate the help.

For the next batch of questions:

- everything looked fine to me for the gaps. I checked to make sure there wasn't any wiggle, and there didn't appear to be any.

- i really want to get a home gunsmithing setup (for basic stuff). Torque wrenches and levels and all that are definitely in the future for me.
And i read/watched a LOT of reviews on so many different rifles and manufacturers, and the Vanguard was what I came to as a conclusion. Great reviews, right price range for me, etc. I'ts really frustrating that this is happening, especially when i KNOW i can shoot, and i KNOW these firearms can be shooters.
The only reason i tried cheapo ammo is because i know every rifle has it's favourites. If herter's shot well, i would use it haha.

- i was firing 3 shot groups, and i would wait 5 - 10 minutes between groups, or until the barrel felt cool to the touch. I fired 40 rounds total over 4 hours.

- is it dumb if i dont know what a crown is?

The crown is the end of the bore, where the bullet leaves the barrel.

As this is the last thing the bullet touches, damage to it can have a significant impact on the bullet.

Did you check the stock to see if it was contacting the gun?


First things first, considering Cabelas installed it, are the base screws tight? You can just loosen the rings and remove the rings/scope as a whole unit to check. Even if you don't have a proper torque wrench, hand tightening stuff (don't over do it) isn't going to make things worse.

 

[Mazeofmystery]

The crown is the end of the bore, where the bullet leaves the barrel.

As this is the last thing the bullet touches, damage to it can have a significant impact on the bullet.

Did you check the stock to see if it was contacting the gun?


First things first, considering Cabelas installed it, are the base screws tight? You can just loosen the rings and remove the rings/scope as a whole unit to check. Even if you don't have a proper torque wrench, hand tightening stuff (don't over do it) isn't going to make things worse.

I can check that in the morning, it's a little late here to be clanging and banging into my gun locker haha. But from what i recall when i initially looked the gun over, it was fine (the crown, anyways).

As for the stock, did you mean if it was contacting the barrel? It's not designed as a free-floating barrel.

The base i can check in the morning as well. I have a strong sense that cabela's mounting my scope is the culprit.

 

[45C]

I would try a different scope, it’s hard to mess up a base and ring install.

I recently had a scope that the reticle was moving.

 

[Meroh]

Got a new Weatherby Vanguard "First Lite" edition in 30-06. Beautiful gun. Smooth, light, feels great in the hands, stock is awesome for my cheek.

I can't get it to shoot for sh**. Even at 100 yards. Used everything from Herter's to Barnes.

I did get the scope mounted at Cabela's, so I don't know if that has any effect. They also mounted it on a 20 moa rail.

Is it me? Is there a break-in period? Does Cabela's suck and I should go to a dedicated firearm store?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Unless you are shooting 6 miles away, get rid of the 20 MOA rail, and start over.

 

[Warden70]

I can check that in the morning, it's a little late here to be clanging and banging into my gun locker haha. But from what i recall when i initially looked the gun over, it was fine (the crown, anyways).

As for the stock, did you mean if it was contacting the barrel? It's not designed as a free-floating barrel.

The base i can check in the morning as well. I have a strong sense that cabela's mounting my scope is the culprit.

To check this, run a q-tip up and down the bore slightly at the crown all the way around. If the cotton snags of anything there is a burr and would be a defect. Exchange for another gun.

 

[stubblejumper]

A friend bought a new Vanguard Meateater last summer, and it was extremely fussy. The first four loads that I tried would all do 2-3moa at 100m for three shots. The fifth load put five shots in 100m, and was consistent. I am not a fan of pencil barrels, let alone fluted pencil barrels, as the ones that I have fired, tended to be much more fussy than heavier contour barrels. As for the 20moa base, that makes no sense at all on a hunting rifle, go with Talley lightweights.

 

[naktabar72]

Rail is not an issue.
whats the rings,
whats the scope,
show us picture of the groups,
make sur all the screws are properly torque .

 

[iron cat]

I have seen this issue quite often, the first thing I do is switch scopes to rule that out.
If things smarten up, it's a scop/ ring issue.
If not, I pull the action and check the bed for oil in it. Etc.
Oil can get into the tiniest of cracks and it will ruin the accuracy on a rifle without any perceived movement .
I would also get rid of any pressure points in the stock.

Without actually seeing the rifle however, it is hard to diagnose a problem .
Cat

 

[kamlooky]

Ol' Mr. H use to put a bit of pressure at the tip of the forestock/bawrill area and check the outcome.
Sometimes things got better and sometimes no change.

Something like a sliver of a business card.
I thnk 6 pounds of pressure was the magic #'d idea.

 

[Suther]

Unless you are shooting 6 miles away, get rid of the 20 MOA rail, and start over.

a 20MOA rail isn't going to impact accuracy unless its not bolted down properly. It may seem out of place on a hunting rifle but the cant isn't going to make the gun shoot bad.

 

[Joel]

a 20MOA rail isn't going to impact accuracy unless its not bolted down properly. It may seem out of place on a hunting rifle but the cant isn't going to make the gun shoot bad.

Yeah, that is an issue of distaste/opinion, not a problem. That's it, its torqued on there so it doesn't move or not.

The Vanguard I have here definitely has some upward pressure on the barrel, coming from the forend tip. Supposed to be there. Its a rigid, sturdy stock for a cheaper synthetic one.

If it aint the optics mounting job, sounds like its a picky rifle. Especially if "getting down to 2 MOA" is possible. Maybe there's a factory load it likes more than that and starts really flingin' em into tight groups for you.

 

[AlbertaJohn]

I am also a new Vanguard s2 (6.5 prc) owner since last Christmas and same issue with accuracy.

The bases, rings, scope were all double checked and the best I can do is 1.25 inch groups. Now that might not be bad but it isn't the 1 inch they guarantee.

Ammo I have tried is the following

143gr ELD-X
147GR ELD-M
127GR LRX and
140gr Federal Fusion which was the best overall.

My question is would glass bedding help me get to under a moa?

Pic is of my best group but I pulled on the bottom hole

View attachment 672076

 

[IvoB]

I am also a new Vanguard s2 (6.5 prc) owner since last Christmas and same issue with accuracy.

The bases, rings, scope were all double checked and the best I can do is 1.25 inch groups. Now that might not be bad but it isn't the 1 inch they guarantee.

Ammo I have tried is the following

143gr ELD-X
147GR ELD-M
127GR LRX and
140gr Federal Fusion which was the best overall.

My question is would glass bedding help me get to under a moa?

Pic is of my best group but I pulled on the bottom hole

View attachment 672076

Accuracy Checklist

BREAK-IN: Confirm that firearm has completed suggested break-in procedure and proper maintenance. Improper use or owner modifications to the firearm voids the guarantee and warranty.
ACTION SCREWS: Confirm that these screws are tight. Hand-laid Fiberglass & Carbon Fiber stocks, verify that the screws are torqued to 55 inch-lbs, while Wood and Synthetic stocks should be torqued to 35 inch-lbs. (See attachment for torquing procedures)
SCOPE MOUNTS: Use a quality set of scope mounts, and verify that they have been securely mounted to the firearm.
SCOPE: Use a quality, tested scope, and verify that it is securely mounted to the firearm.
AMMUNITION: Test fire the rifle using only premium or Weatherby factory ammunition. Please see attached lists for our recommendations.
CROWN: Verify that the barrel’s crown is free of any dings, gouges or large scratches.
CLEAN BARREL: Use a trusted copper solvent, such as Sweet’s 7.62, to thoroughly clean the bore (follow manufacturers instructions for any brand used).

Vanguard​® ​Series 2 ​rifles with a serial number prefix of “VB​” are guaranteed to shoot a .99″ or better 3-shot group at 100 yards from a cold barrel when used with premium (non-Weatherby calibers) or Weatherby factory ammunition.

My Vanguard in 223 shot fantastic and my 240wby shoots fantastic

 

[Dogleg]

Without actually seeing the rifle however, it is hard to diagnose a problem .
Cat

That's definitely an issue. Just starting at putting the bases on there's a few ways of screwing up, starting with the screws being different lengths. A bottomed out screw holds nothing. Remington 700 bases screw to the rifle but that's not the same as fitting. The rear action ring is lower on a Vanguard requiring either shimming or the proper thickness of base in the first place. Misalignments with the wrong bases are on the order of 20-40 thousandths, which is a lot of scope bending badness. Talley and Leupold get it right, Weaver has a shim warning that nobody reads and unless things have changed in the last few years few other mount makers have a clue. There's precious few Vanguard specific rails, so I'd wager there's a 700 rail that is "supposed to fit" in play. That gives the likelihood of bending the base to fit the action by tightening the screws so you can in turn bend the scope to match the crooked rail. A no-nonsense steel rail will bend the action to fit the base. Proper mounting of a rail involves properly bedding the rail to the action. That's more than you can expect of any counter guy, and would be Greek to a lot of gun-smiths as well. Sure a lot of hassle for a part that a hunter is better off without in the first place.

All this and we haven't even looked at the gun, rings or scope yet.

 

[Joel]

Interesting that they insist on a break-in at all, before achieving their accuracy guarantee. But really, all they are saying is that it CAN shoot 1" with an ammo they approve of.

My experience with a few of em so far has been 5 shot groups that are quite tight but for one or two flyers. Barrel heat or stock fit, not sure.

Not too concerned beyond 3 shots either TBH. Hunting rifle and all.