*new Vid* Winchester Model 94 30-30 question

Wally

Wally

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Hey guys,
Bought a Winchester Model 94 off a fellow member last summer. Haven't put many rounds through it yet but I have a question about the function of the rifle.

whenever I chamber a round it takes a considerable ammount of energy to close the bolt. It looks to me like the thing chambers the round ok but the extra resistance seems to be coming from the ejector. I don't remember that from my Dad's old 30-30. It seemed to chamber rounds very easily if my memory serves.

Anyway, should this thing be chambering rounds in such a way the the rim ends up under the extractor while it's coming up the feedramp or is this normal operation?

Here's a video in case you don't know what I'm on about. The focus kinda sucks but you should get the idea.

The big click at 20secs is what I'm refering to.

Cheers,
Wally
 
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It's normal for the extractor to snap over the rim at the last, but I suspect that's not the problem.
Check that the groove the extractor fits into in the barrel is not plugged. If it's free, then check the rounds in the magazine for marks. The little *** on the Link (item 30) that keeps the remaining cartridges in the magazine may be pinching them as the link closes. This can happen due to wear in the *** itself, or in the links pin (item 34).
It can cause considerable force to be needed to close the bolt that last little bit.
ipb-winchester-94.jpg

Image courtesy steves pages http://stevespages.com/jpg/ipb-winchester-94.jpg
 
Hmmm, does it do this with all brass (unfired)? I see that you're using empty brass, and if it hasn't been resized it most definitely won't want to go back in, or come out too easily. I know, cus I forgot one day and put unsized .303 back in my bubba'd enfield one day. Was like the jam from hell.:bangHead: :rolleyes:
 
Thanks for the reply JYC.

OK, the groove the extractor fits into is clear. This is the only mark I could find on a round I cycled:
9430302.jpg

what's the deal with the "***" there? Otherwise I'm not 100% that I know what you're talkin about. The thing seems to work just fine without a round in the gun. Weather it's just one round going into the chamber or one round being chambered AND a full mag, it still does the same thing. But, it works fine when empty.

I took these pics. See if you can see anything amis.
9430307.jpg

9430306.jpg

9430305.jpg

9430304.jpg

9430303.jpg

I'm sorry about the cleanliness. apparently it looks ALOT dirtier with a macro lense and a flash. I Haven't done anything to it since I got it so that's from the last guy not taking care of it.
 
It doesn't sound like it's doing anything out of the ordinary, but you should probably clean some of the gunk out of the chamber and receiver before you shoot it; it looks like there might be some rust starting in the chamber, and that WILL give you extraction problems. If nothing else, a good spray with brake cleaner and some compressed air would probably clean up the way it feels.
 
The chamber looks terrible, I hope it's the photo.
Time for a good cleaning. It could easily be your entire problem
By any chance has the extractor been replaced recently? A friend of mine got an aftermarket one, and it was a tad too long.
Might be a good idea to oil and free up the extractor while you are cleaning that chamber. It could be siezed in the groove, although that's fairly rare.
What I can see of the '***' Geeze you can't say ***, OK TEAT! I described in my first post, (it's the piece sticking up through the cartridge guide in your second to last pic) looks slightly worn, so don't absolutely discard that idea. If it were the problem though I would expect strong bite marks on the case rims.
How loose is the action in general, when cycled without a cartridge?
Is it better with factory brass, not reloads?
 
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OK, I'll start with a good cleaning. Like I said, I didn't realize it was so bad untill I looked at those pictures!! Are these things difficult to dissasemble? I would be nice to pull it appart and clean it unless you guys have some better ideas.

Re: Extractor - I don't know. I haven't had the gun long and I haven't done ANYTHING to it aside from putting a box of shells through it.

I don't find it loose at all. That's why I bought the thing. It feels nice and tight.

Dunno about the brass thing. All I've put through it is Factory ammo. I don't think the ammo is the problem though. It chambers and extracts everything just fine aside from the extra pressure requited to get the action to close (By that time the shell is already all the way into the chamber.)
 
Wow! Needs some TLC for sure. That rifle is going to be very happy in a new home where it gets lots of attention again. :)

I'd use "wipeout" to get everything out of the chamber and bore, because unless the pic is misleading it would be well served by a thorough cleaning. It could simply be that pushing the cartridge into the chamber has enough resitance to cause the symptoms you notice.

While the bolt is out use brake cleaner or something similar and get the gunk out of all the nooks and crannies. Make sure everything moves freely within the bolt.

I've got an old .22lr that doesn't extract properly after many rounds because of buildup out of sight in the recess cut into the chamber for the extractor to fit into while reaching around the rim of the shell. It's a long shot, but make sure to clean that out as well.
 
I should also add, I'm thinking it would be a great idea to send all firearms I'm considering purchasing to you for detailed photograhing of the chamber and internals. It would probably talk me out of many purchases! ;)
 
What I saw in the video is completely normal and is exactly how mine is. When you cycle the action really slow, like what you are doing, it makes jumping the rim a little harder.
Cycle it normally and you'll see with a bit of momentum it won't be as pronounced.
Don't worry about it, it's normal but give the thing a cleaning already.
 
cariboo_kid said:
I should also add, I'm thinking it would be a great idea to send all firearms I'm considering purchasing to you for detailed photograhing of the chamber and internals. It would probably talk me out of many purchases! ;)
Click to expand...
:D The one thing I have to get better at is recognising wear and corrosion and internal stuff when buying a new gun. My aim is to one day know guns well enough that I never get shafted when making a purchaise. Gotta say though, this is how I learn best.

Yeah, I wish pics like this were available for every gun up in the EE. It would make the decision process so much easier and I would sleep better knowing I was getting what I paid for while the gun was in the mail.

Okidoki, I'll giver a good scrubbin. Are these things hard to dissasemble though? I've never had the bolt out of a '94.
Braiot said:
What I saw in the video is completely normal and is exactly how mine is. When you cycle the action really slow, like what you are doing, it makes jumping the rim a little harder.
Cycle it normally and you'll see with a bit of momentum it won't be as pronounced.
Don't worry about it, it's normal but give the thing a cleaning already.
Click to expand...
I know what you mean Braiot and that was my quasi-solution the first time I took it out but that doesn't satisfy me. I remember back in the day quietly chambering rounds in my Dad's 30-30 while hunting Groundhogs. It's not so much the noise that bothers me as it is the stress I have to put on the leaver. I'm SURE it should be smoother than that...
 
Wally...couple things...take for what its worth...

Looks like it should be dissassemled and cleaned initially...use a stiff toothbrush and some WD40, or some such to scrub parts clean.
Chamber looks to have surface rust, bore probly does too. Use a tight fitting bronze brush and lube/cleaned and scrub each. I like "Fluid Film" for this...seem to loosen and carry rust well.
For regular cleaning of levers, plastic airline works well as a flexible cleaning rod, I think 1/4" for 30-30. You can get thread adapters to epoxy in and use to attach brushes or jags...or just push em.

Hope this makes some sense and and may help.
 
HERE is disassembly of a post 64 Winchester 94.

Mine is pre-64 and there were some small differences, like two screws rather than a pin for the carrier, but I got through it.

It looks like yours needs to be gutted. I would pull the magazine tube off too - the last thing you need is for the spring and magazine follower to rust solid to the inside of the magazine. Just a word of caution - getting the barrel band screws back on was a ##### on mine. You might be able to clean the tube in place with the spring and follower removed.

I cleaned my small internal parts in an ultrasonic cleaner which knocked off decades of grime. I oiled them well and wiped off excess, then applied a thin coating of light synthetic grease on pins and other moving parts before reassembly. The bore on mine is excellent so I didn't need to do any work on that. Yours is bad enough that you might want to look into building an electric bore cleaner. Milsurp guys use these a lot to restore nasty bores fouled with decades of nickel and copper.

I just went through this last month. Send me a note if you get stuck. My rifle was working fine before I started, but now it is SLICK as a Winchester should be.
 
Hi i changed the firing pin in my uncles win model 88 and it was all cleaned and working fine,3 weeks later we went moose hunting and he could hardly chamber a round after a couple drops of oil it works fine.I would suggest like the other members give it a good cleaning and add a touch of oil on all moving parts.
onthos
 
And make sure that you full size your brass if your reloading.
It does look like there is TOO MUCH CRUD in your chamber, and your brass is sticking to it when chambering. That thing will probably shoot like a dream after its disassembled and cleaned.
My Skinnerton book says: Removal of cartridge guides is not recommended as poorly installed guides cause missfeeds.
Good luck, and tell us how it turns out.KD
 
That's one dirty-30:rolleyes:

I would never sell a gun in that condition but if for some reason I had to I would at least make sure the buyer is aware...

It's a good chance to get to know your rifle though. :)

Be sure and post some more pics when you get it all cleaned up!:dancingbanana:
 
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