New Walther CCP .... gas delayed!

[elektrobug]

This type of gas system is self regulating. Just as it adjusts to different weight bullets and different pressure ammo such as +P and NATO it will adjust to a slightly longer barrel. P7M8/M13SD as well as Sport models had a longer barrel with no effect on function. Grandmaster Bruce Gray ran P7M13s in IPSC at 9mm major PF. He said when he was experimenting he could load it even hotter, to the point of the brass cases failing in the fluted chamber, but function was still 100%!

 

[ghostie]

That's interesting. Did the extractor handle that pressure? I have blown the extractor out of P7 pistols twice over the years. I know that this is designed as a fail-safe for overpressure situations, and I know that the guns will extract without the extractor, but if you are going to run insanely hot ammo, I would probably take it out first, rather than try and find the three little pieces when they fly out.

For people that are not familar with P7s, the extractor parts flying out is not a problem if you use any kind of relatively "normal" ammo, factory, including +P and +P+, or loaded to factory-type spec. For me, one was a case-failure on reloaded nickle brass (small tip: do not reload nickle brass, especially at higher pressures), the other one was more recently using factory ammo with a type of 95gr. bullet.

I was lucky in that i found all three pieces (extractor, plunger and spring) and you can just pop it back together, it doesn't hurt the pistol or anything. You just run the risk of losing the parts, especially the plunger.

Since then I have heard that some P7's, especially in the U.S. were sold with a warning card in the box that says not to use ammunition less than 100gr. I would certainly second that based on my experiences.

You (Electrobug) had some really hot German ammo that was lighter bullet weight. Did you ever try that with P7's? How did it work?

 

[elektrobug]

He did got through a few extractors and drop safety catches but that was shooting super hot 175 PF (before IPSC major was changed to 165 PF) ammunition with well over 200,000 rounds through his P7M13. No other parts ever failed, that is a testament to the P7 design, all forged steel construction and H&K quality. Most other pistols would have cracked a slide or frame by that round count. All pistols fail eventually but Bruce was not able to find that point with the P7. At a range I worked even the rental Glocks would fail by the time the round count got that high. The left rear slide rail would shear from the frame, making the pistol unsafe to shoot and retiring it.

Back to your P7, is it a high milage gun? If it is, the ejector is flying off on a regular basis could be an indicator of something else going on. It could be a symptom of a worn piston that is causing overfunction. Get a micrometer and measure the first few rings on the gas piston on a brand new P7 as well as on that one with the problem. Also make sure the extractor channel is clean as dirt can accumulate underneath it. Lastly inspect the extractor spring and plunger to see if the spring is fatigued (shorter compared to a new one) or the plunger is damaged in any way.

I did run the solid copper German +P ammo through my P7M8 with no issues but it was not in large quantity. Considering it was the official German police training ammunition it had to work with the P7, one of the official sidearms.

On a side note, my user name is not "Electrobug".

 

[ghostie]

On a side note, my user name is not "Electrobug".

Good point.

No, its nothing wrong with the guns. It was two seperate times, once per gun, once with an M13, once with an M8, over 10 years of shooting about 10 different P7's with at least 30,000 rounds of every type of ammo under the sun, including lots of reloads.

What I am saying is, it is very rare, but it is something that can happen to a P7 if you use them long enough with enough different kinds of ammo. It's a design feature. Like a pressure overload release. Very rare though.

If a person stuck with factory 115, 124 or 147 gr. ammo, including +P, I don't think they would experience this... ever. But I can say, 95gr., the M8 does not like it (that particular brand, it is a Winchester brand that is no longer produced. I was using up some of my "reserve" of strange ammo, and only shot about 7-8 rounds that stuff before it popped the extractor out. It was shooting like a really hard +P+ type of thing, I should have stopped, but I shot a few more rounds, and then it went pop. "O.k., I'm calling it a day on that pistol until I can check it over". I just put it back together and it is good as new. I have used it lots since then with no problems.
The other one, the case blowout years ago, that was just user error. The gun just shook it off like it was nothing. That gun still looks and shoots as good now as the day I got it (that is the '02 M13, my favorite gun). I think I still have that nickel case somewhere. It has a massive blow-out at the base.

Searching my photobucket, I see I even have a photo of that ammo. It is this 95gr. Winchester Western stuff in the middle. I just decided to use that up, as it didn't seem very collectible. Not sure what the problem is. I still have about 40 rounds of the stuff. It won't see the inside of a P7, but it might get used up in my 9mm AR or something like that.

Better picture here: