New Winchester brass does not properly headspace

[jethunter]

Protruding primers can be be from either low pressure loads or long headspace. I expect Pacobillie knows if his load was low pressure or full, but a sooted neck with a proud primer would mean low.

I've been lucky with mine I guess, resized metalverken and new Norma brass worked well and good headspace on all rifles.

Winchester brass quality control isn't what it was. Hit and miss. They don't make their own brass, it's farmed out to low bidder.

 

[supernova]

I agree, cases are not fire forming. Are they coming out with powder burns? Another important note on max charges is that they were developed in a different rifle. Case in point, my particular Mosin that I'm developing a load for was not fire forming at all with starting loads and velocities were a couple hundred fps less than book velocity from the Lyman 50th. Lyman used a 26" Sako barreled action, I'm shooting a 29" Tula 91/30. Starting loads didn't even seal the neck. Working up to book max showed no pressure signs and quite a bit less velocity. Only at the mid range did cases start showing a similar amount of stretch but even then some were shorter. This isn't terribly surprising to me after watching IV8888's videos on loading D166 for his Finnish Mosin. He had to go way over max to even approach D166 velocity with N140. Only then did cases start to fire form and velocity come within the correct range. No pressure signs were observed. This goes to show that sometimes your rifle and components can perform very differently than what was tested on the lab that day. Just because you're at book max doesn't mean you're at the same pressure as the test rifle they used. Going forward from there is potentially dangerous if you don't know what to look for so has to be generally discouraged for safety reasons. And of course the shoulder position is just a spec floating in a sea of specs so to say. Manufacturers may not hold everything to such strict specs causing issues like this. .303 Brit is a great example.

 

[icdbko32]

did you ever figure out the issue? I'm just spit balling and you could confirm this if you have a headspace comparator but perhaps the brass is ultra soft and when run through the dies it is pushing the shoulder back way to far. I have seen this in brass that was freshly annealed that was pushing back the shoulder a lot farther than work hardened brass I'm use to sizing over the minimum .002-.003 bump.

i'd be interested to hear what you determined out of this and whether or not it was a fire forming issue.

on a side note I have an issue with new winchester brass (different issue than yours) and I was pleasantly suprised with how Winchester/Olin dealt with the issue. A lot better treatment than some "high end" American made brass makers dealt with issues.

 

[bigedp51]

Any time the primers protrude on a fired case it simply means the chamber pressure was not great enough to push the rear of the case back against the bolt face.

Example my 30-30 with max loads always has the primers protruding at 42,000 psi.

The same thing will happen if you make a workup load starting at the suggested start load and work up. At some point as the load is increased the base of the case stretches and contacts the bolt face. This depends on the quality and hardness of the brass and at what pressure it will stretch.

I have had new cases over .009 shorter than a GO gauge, meaning many brands of brass are shorter than your chamber.

Below an image of a British .303 being fired at over 46,000 psi and showing the primer backing out and then the case stretching to contact the bolt face.