the_snowman1
Regular
- Location
- winnipeg manitoba
If you can find old princess auto catologs they had jeeps, motorcycles, weapons carriers my father also said back in the day they had a couple shermans with the turrets off behind the store
New WWII motorcycles in crates?
- Thread starter MD
- Start date
Being a motorcycle nut and military rifle collector I'm loving this thread!!
This thread also brings me back to my Grandad's war stories. He was a Sgt in the British army during the second war. One day while having coffee with him I mentioned that one day I wanted to own and ride a Harley 45 in green.
Grandad being a proper British officer (wore a 3 piece suit, sock suspenders and cufflinks while sipping tea in His mobile home every day) looked at me and yelled "what kind of a silly kid are you??? Real men ride Velocettes!!"
Good times!!
This thread also brings me back to my Grandad's war stories. He was a Sgt in the British army during the second war. One day while having coffee with him I mentioned that one day I wanted to own and ride a Harley 45 in green.
Grandad being a proper British officer (wore a 3 piece suit, sock suspenders and cufflinks while sipping tea in His mobile home every day) looked at me and yelled "what kind of a silly kid are you??? Real men ride Velocettes!!"
Good times!!
One of the reasons why there are a lot of these ex-military bikes still around is because of the high accident rates with them from guys driving cross country or spilling them after losing control on gravel/washboard roads. There were a lot of fatalities and injuries from people using them, crash helmets or no. We used to have a couple in the Bn intended for the DRs in the Sigs Pl. They were never issued because of the accident potential and stayed in pristine condition somewhere in the bowels of the QM stores.
I remember when Ramsey Withers, a Signals Officer promoted beyond his depth, was CDS. He visited Ex RV81 in Gagetown and addressed most of the officers and RSMs of the Division in the Base theatre. One of his main talking points was about the dangers involved in riding military bikes, even though there were none in use at the time. I think he was stuck in an early 1950s time warp.
I remember when Ramsey Withers, a Signals Officer promoted beyond his depth, was CDS. He visited Ex RV81 in Gagetown and addressed most of the officers and RSMs of the Division in the Base theatre. One of his main talking points was about the dangers involved in riding military bikes, even though there were none in use at the time. I think he was stuck in an early 1950s time warp.
T'was in Frank's shop many, many times. Couple of my motorcyling friends were/are big into Indians and having many buddies who live in Acadia, meant spending time in Tucker Town was manditory.
Frank's Brough Superior 1150 Special was purchased by someone I knew well in about 1990. It was an ex-OPP patrol bike. It was a completely original, ableit well worn.
Just to add to the 'surplus after the war' stories, Sam Elliott, a well known Calgary gunsmith from the 1950's to 1980's, travelled with friends down to Fort Macleod in 1946, with cash in pockets on a mission.
There was a government vehicle surplus facility there, and he and his friends all purchased WLC's and Indian 741's. Sam, being an Indian man, always waxed nostalgic about his Scout 101. He purchased an almost new 741 and rode it around Calgary for many years afterwards.
He said that during the war, no new cars and motorcycles were being produced. War time scrap drives had culled many a good car or motorcycle out of alleyways and driveways, and what did remain was not cheap when and if it did come up for sale....
So when the advertisment came out in the newspaper about the surplus offer of war surplus vehicles at Fort Macleod, he and friends saddled up the first day off they had, and down they went. Sam said there were 40-50 bikes in the lot, and they had the pick of the litter. Paid cash and rode 'em home.
Take a look at the second bullet on the page: http://www.spitcrazy.com/simmons-4.htm
It's been said that the German's most effective "secret weapons" in WW2 were the jeep, pistol, or motorcycle in the hands of an improperly trained, careless or unlucky US, Brit, or Cdn soldier. Accidental death or injuries involving these 3 pieces of equipment were very high and we continued to see this in the post-war Army where I lost a number of soldiers and friends in jeep accidents due to a combination of short wheelbase, washboard gravel roads, and excessive speed.
Long time ago I worked for a major who had served as a tank commander in the GGHG in Italy and used to talk about the high accident rate with motorcycles, calling them `murderbikes`because of problems with them on the crappy Italian mountain roads. He was an interesting fellow and I used to marvel how effective he was after his habitual liquid lunch of 2 beers and 3 whiskies at the bar, thinking that he would have risen to a much higher rank had he just opted for a hamburger and coke instead.
This guy had also served on exchange with the Brits where dress and personal grooming habits were a bit different. As a young fellow I used to keep my hair cut high and tight which resulted in me getting called into his office one day for counselling on why officers should have their hair dressed, instead of cut.
T.E. Lawrence, AKA Lawrence of Arabia, was a big bike enthusiast and eventually was killed in an accident with his motorcycle while serving semi-incognito as a humble aircraftsman in the RAF between the wars.
Long time ago I worked for a major who had served as a tank commander in the GGHG in Italy and used to talk about the high accident rate with motorcycles, calling them `murderbikes`because of problems with them on the crappy Italian mountain roads. He was an interesting fellow and I used to marvel how effective he was after his habitual liquid lunch of 2 beers and 3 whiskies at the bar, thinking that he would have risen to a much higher rank had he just opted for a hamburger and coke instead.
This guy had also served on exchange with the Brits where dress and personal grooming habits were a bit different. As a young fellow I used to keep my hair cut high and tight which resulted in me getting called into his office one day for counselling on why officers should have their hair dressed, instead of cut.
T.E. Lawrence, AKA Lawrence of Arabia, was a big bike enthusiast and eventually was killed in an accident with his motorcycle while serving semi-incognito as a humble aircraftsman in the RAF between the wars.
Purple, your actually very close! T.E. Lawrence, serving in the RAF incognito as Aircraftsman AC-1 T.E. Shaw, retired from the Service in December 1934. He was killed the following May, 1935, as a civilian.
He was riding his latest Brough Superior SS100 from his cottage 'Clouds Hill' in Dorest to post a letter. He did own and ride motorcycles all through his service career after retiring from public life.
He was indeed a rabid motorcylist, often heading out Friday nights, and not coming back until late Sunday, with an additional 1000 miles on his odometer. From the early 1920's till his death he owned 8 Brough Superiors, each of which cost more new than a family house at the time.
'Aurens' would have taken a very active role in the upcoming war had he lived long enough. We can only speculate what that might of been. He swore he would never see the Desert again.
OP, sorry for the thread derail.....
He was riding his latest Brough Superior SS100 from his cottage 'Clouds Hill' in Dorest to post a letter. He did own and ride motorcycles all through his service career after retiring from public life.
He was indeed a rabid motorcylist, often heading out Friday nights, and not coming back until late Sunday, with an additional 1000 miles on his odometer. From the early 1920's till his death he owned 8 Brough Superiors, each of which cost more new than a family house at the time.
'Aurens' would have taken a very active role in the upcoming war had he lived long enough. We can only speculate what that might of been. He swore he would never see the Desert again.
OP, sorry for the thread derail.....
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I'm sure there are still some <interesting> old stuff in crates, all over the world...
But it probably can't be imported to Canada because
1) Some bureaucrats don't want to
2) Some bean-counters said they'll have to be destroyed to qualify for this or that credit
3) This or that agency is not allowed to sell goods to civilians...
But it probably can't be imported to Canada because
1) Some bureaucrats don't want to
2) Some bean-counters said they'll have to be destroyed to qualify for this or that credit
3) This or that agency is not allowed to sell goods to civilians...
RV81, I was there and this is my motorcycle story. As a young VIIICH trooper in Recce Sqn we had our Lynx on a semi hardstanding like verge doing track maint when the Force Sergeant Major (I recall his name was Marr, but could be wrong) came rolling up on a MC as SSF Hq and Sigs had some. He stopped to shoot the sh!t and see how the ex was going. I asked him how he liked the bike and he had a great day to be out riding and that I had not been on one in years so he hopped off and told me to take it for a rip so off I go, no helmet, no 404s stateing I was allowed to drive it, just a small patch of Gagetown training area and not a care in the world. Hey if the FSM says its Ok to go for a short drive who am I to say No Sir. The bikes where around but not really of any value back then and even less so today.
All the stories were true & not Urban Legend.
Princess Auto had them. I remember seeing them in the display window when they were on Fort Street in the old General Motors assembly plant & the warehouse was (& still is) on Panet Road right in front of the old dump where the old city trolley cars went to die. [We used to run along the tops of the cars & shoot down through the holes rotted into the top of the roofs at the rats that were running around.] Most of the motorcycles were Triumphs & BSA's, the odd Norton Commando & old flathead 45 Harleys, but the only ones I ever saw in the crates were the Trumpets. P.A. also had surplus jeeps, but the only new Jeep stuff in crates that I ever saw there were the power packages [engine & clutch or engine, clutch & tranny/T-case], which they still had, albeit for $995.00, at least for the M-151, up until a couple of years ago).
There were also a bunch of Sherman tanks & bren gun carriers parked next to the aforementioned dump, too. Litz Crane in Winnipeg sold Sherman tanks from their McPhillips Street yard back in the mid to late 60's for $50.00 (I was sooooo mad at my folks when they said NO, even though I had bust my butt to get that much money!
SMELLIE:
IIRC, that was Bernie Nicholson & his brother Lawrence (Nicholson Brothers) who bought out Hall's stuff, shortly after they moved their shop from Saskatoon to Calgary.
Canuckchap:
Sydney I. Robinson was originally a fur buying store that grew to include trapper's supplies, then guns, ammunition, canoes & everything needed by trappers. The original business was started by Sydney Israel Robinson, father of Sydney Isaac Robinson, who enlarged it numerous times until he died in '80, when his widow & son Terry took it over until they sold out to Cabela's in 2006, after a deal could not be struck with the then-owner of Frenchie's / Barotto / Wholesale Sports, to buy it, before they sold out to UFA.
Princess Auto had them. I remember seeing them in the display window when they were on Fort Street in the old General Motors assembly plant & the warehouse was (& still is) on Panet Road right in front of the old dump where the old city trolley cars went to die. [We used to run along the tops of the cars & shoot down through the holes rotted into the top of the roofs at the rats that were running around.] Most of the motorcycles were Triumphs & BSA's, the odd Norton Commando & old flathead 45 Harleys, but the only ones I ever saw in the crates were the Trumpets. P.A. also had surplus jeeps, but the only new Jeep stuff in crates that I ever saw there were the power packages [engine & clutch or engine, clutch & tranny/T-case], which they still had, albeit for $995.00, at least for the M-151, up until a couple of years ago).
There were also a bunch of Sherman tanks & bren gun carriers parked next to the aforementioned dump, too. Litz Crane in Winnipeg sold Sherman tanks from their McPhillips Street yard back in the mid to late 60's for $50.00 (I was sooooo mad at my folks when they said NO, even though I had bust my butt to get that much money!
SMELLIE:
IIRC, that was Bernie Nicholson & his brother Lawrence (Nicholson Brothers) who bought out Hall's stuff, shortly after they moved their shop from Saskatoon to Calgary.
Canuckchap:
Sydney I. Robinson was originally a fur buying store that grew to include trapper's supplies, then guns, ammunition, canoes & everything needed by trappers. The original business was started by Sydney Israel Robinson, father of Sydney Isaac Robinson, who enlarged it numerous times until he died in '80, when his widow & son Terry took it over until they sold out to Cabela's in 2006, after a deal could not be struck with the then-owner of Frenchie's / Barotto / Wholesale Sports, to buy it, before they sold out to UFA.
There was a number of US surplus vehicles supplied to Poland via UNRRA up to 1947 ,including HD motorcycles in crates.
Long time ago I spoke to guy working in long term magazine and stores in Polish Army in 60's-he saw some of them still there with French stencils on the crates.
God knows what happened to it.
Long time ago I spoke to guy working in long term magazine and stores in Polish Army in 60's-he saw some of them still there with French stencils on the crates.
God knows what happened to it.
Amazing. Never knew so many guys here into vintage motorcyles too! My dad bought a Harley 45 from Princess Auto in the late 50's , wasn't new in the crate though. One piston turned out to be standard and the other +.030 over. He traded it to a friend when he joined the Navy in 1963 (like every Manitoba kid??) and when he went west a few years ago tried to track it down to no avail. Around here in the late 80's/90's there were a few Triumph TRW's , one guy I know has a dozen, many of them either completely original or completely restored. I'm amazed that Smellie has one too! The TRW was not however the Triumph engine used in the bombers as a generator, that was an overhead valve 500, not the flathead TRW which came out post-war.
Nicholson Brothers used to have lots of ex-surplus parts, at one point they had new old stock Smith's Chronometric speedometers for $30. , nowadays they sell in the $400 range. All painted OD green. I managed to get one for $80 about 10 years ago for my 1943 BSA M20 but the prices have gone nuts on them recently.
I put a tender on some of the Armstrong MT500 bikes the military sold off in the 90's, all new and never put into service. There were 7 of them at Crown Assets in New Brunswick. Why I didn't buy one is one of my regrets. They all sold for $2300 each according to the posted auction results, probably the same bidder bought them all.
My BSA M20 came from Missouri, there was a large stash imported into the US Midwest after the British sold them off, but they were in pretty rough shape. Canada never officially had any BSA's but we mainly had Norton 16h's in WW2, once the guys got overseas they were exposed to the BSA and many other models, the BSA M20 was either hated as slower and heavier, or admired for it's unrelenting durability. I'm hoping to finish mine soon and get it back on the road after 40 plus years gathering dust. I'll post some pics when it's done!
Nicholson Brothers used to have lots of ex-surplus parts, at one point they had new old stock Smith's Chronometric speedometers for $30. , nowadays they sell in the $400 range. All painted OD green. I managed to get one for $80 about 10 years ago for my 1943 BSA M20 but the prices have gone nuts on them recently.
I put a tender on some of the Armstrong MT500 bikes the military sold off in the 90's, all new and never put into service. There were 7 of them at Crown Assets in New Brunswick. Why I didn't buy one is one of my regrets. They all sold for $2300 each according to the posted auction results, probably the same bidder bought them all.
My BSA M20 came from Missouri, there was a large stash imported into the US Midwest after the British sold them off, but they were in pretty rough shape. Canada never officially had any BSA's but we mainly had Norton 16h's in WW2, once the guys got overseas they were exposed to the BSA and many other models, the BSA M20 was either hated as slower and heavier, or admired for it's unrelenting durability. I'm hoping to finish mine soon and get it back on the road after 40 plus years gathering dust. I'll post some pics when it's done!
What a sixty's dream ... sort of up there with the corvet for a song cause someone died in it ....
Mythbusters compleatly destroyed the vet story, but the harley in a box is still untouched in the part of me that is the 60's
Exactly, there's no doubt various crated military vehicles could be purchased by civilians in the 50's,60's,70's. The OP's question was to know if there's still some of those crates hidden in gov't storage somewhere, I really don't think so.
The TRW500 at Crown Surplus in Calgary
burnt_servo
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- right in the middle of b.c.
there are the Chinese cj750's which are supposed to be built off of the same tooling as the bmw r71's ......
might be the closest thing to a crated ww2 motorcycle when you uncrate it from it's trip from asia
might be the closest thing to a crated ww2 motorcycle when you uncrate it from it's trip from asia
Why you didn't buy two so that you'd have one to sell to me eventually is one of my regrets.
I was issued one for a ten day home defense exercise in England when I was a company 2i/c, a job which involved a lot of liaison work for which the bike was very handy. A lot of liaison work. More than I had ever hoped a company 2i/c could get away with.
It's not "myth", but we are about 40 years too late. Back in the '70's and early '80's I was on the hunt for an army jeep. There were various journals that listed surplus military and government auctions in Canada and the US, and I subscribed to all of them. They may even still exist. I was also a member of the Crown Assets Disposal Corporation mailing lists, and went to several of their auction and sales events in Mississauga near the airport, and actually bought a fair bit of junk. My grandfather who lived in Virgina went to a couple of US auctions for me also looking for a jeep also.
Problem was, the stuff the government or their agents offered for sale at auction all had a certain picked-over look. I think the system was suspicious and rigged, because apparently they had preferred buyers, often big dealers, that got first dibbs on the lots. Whatever was left was heavily used or worn out, and that was what the general public got to bid on. If there was any good stuff left, it tended to sell at full market prices.
Back in the '70s you actually could purchase a crated jeep, bike, firearm, or whatever, but chances are you would have to buy it from a dealer, and they would be asking full retail.
Considering how big organizations tend to misplace things, there could always be some overlooked cache of inventory somewhere, but you would need to do some very careful searching to ever find stuff now.
Problem was, the stuff the government or their agents offered for sale at auction all had a certain picked-over look. I think the system was suspicious and rigged, because apparently they had preferred buyers, often big dealers, that got first dibbs on the lots. Whatever was left was heavily used or worn out, and that was what the general public got to bid on. If there was any good stuff left, it tended to sell at full market prices.
Back in the '70s you actually could purchase a crated jeep, bike, firearm, or whatever, but chances are you would have to buy it from a dealer, and they would be asking full retail.
Considering how big organizations tend to misplace things, there could always be some overlooked cache of inventory somewhere, but you would need to do some very careful searching to ever find stuff now.
I also remember in 1991-92 I saw BSA bikes in crates at CFB Moncton in stores .
