Newb needs a hand: .223 Rem vs .22 Hornet

Another league.

Surplus is getting less cheap every day. Look at all the whiny threads around here about it.

x39 is adequate for anything you would use a 30-30 for, once you plant an appropriate bullet on it. Kinda overkill for bunnies.

But if you wanted to shoot lots, for cheap, look into casting, in addition to reloading. Small charges of Unique, or one of the ___ Dot powders, and your big expense becomes primers.

Really no one-caliber solution, once you get past .22 rimfire. Just choices that all pretty much have costs and benefits to weigh out.

My father had a 22-250. Fun for the occasional crow or coyote, but too much for a lot of shooting. For me, a .223 is about as large a case as I want, and I don't load hot. I am building (really slowly) a .22Hornet on a BSA Martini action, that I want to shoot cast from, almost exclusively. More of a reloadable .22 Magnum, rather than a primary gopher gun. Not too concerned about making it a "K", but that's an option later. I want to build a .17 Ackley on the same frame. 3000+ fps on 10-ish grains of powder. Look out starlings!

Look at the Fireballs. Darn near same performance, less powder. Bigger isn't always better. If you want to shoot a lot, good options.

End of day, your money, your choice. You are gonna have fun with it no matter if you get the same as everyone else has, or the only one like it anywhere.

Cheers
Trev
 
223 for me, load it normally for gophers and such. Load it down for hornet like performance and plinking. More available cheap brass for 223 and don't find 204 really outperforms 223 like the internet says it does.
 
9 or 8 twist 223 if you are looking for a factory rifle.

Stevens or Axis both have the 9 twist barrel. For the investment, you have a great shooting rifles will tons of upward mobility. Accurate too.

You can load a 223 to whatever you want from a 22 hornet to a full meal deal 223 which can red mist much further then a hornet.

Brass is readily available ie visit your range and pick it up, at reduced loads will last for ever (learn to anneal), all support equipment is readily available and in a pinch, you can use factory ammo.

It is now the most versatile chambering in the 22 cal.

Most 22/250's are hard on barrels and expensive to shoot. 22 hornet brass can be hard to find, fragile and way more money.

204s are brutal on barrels so become expensive so shoot.

I have owned the 222 Rem and what a gem but I now shoot 223 and it covers all I want to do from CQB to plinking at 1400yds.

Not bad at all...

Jerry
 
A lot of people under estimate the Hornet. Look at the sticky above reloading data. You can load the Hornet for over 3000ft/s as well. As for the brass being weak, it can be reloaded 10 times without any problems. 1000 new brass $209.99. And if you want to shoot all day long you can recoil is non-existant.
 
Reloading the hornet is about on par with the cost of buying HMR ammo. Depends exactly on what bullets you use, and how many loads you get out of your brass (with a collet neck die, I've never lost brass yet, 10+ loads)
 
I've had a .222 as my sole varmint rifle for years. Often over the years I read alot about Hornets, everyone around me had very nice .223s that perfromed very very well BTW. (Trevj, Silverback, CoolPool Ken) Plus, there was enough written grief about the Hornet cartridge for claimed accuracy, I stayed away.

That recently changed when I just purchased a Browning Micro Hunter in 22 Hornet. (northern boreal forest here)
Just over 6lbs, 3 shot magazine, LH option, with a reputation of accuracy too.
Adequate 22 inch tapered matte blue barrel, slightly shorter stock dimensions. What's not to love?
Sadly this calibre is not an option with the newer X-Bolt series.
IMHO, perhaps the 221 Fireball brass will outlive Hornet brass, for handloads, but I'm sold on this rifle for now.

Don't take my word for it, research this one yourself.
 
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redbonefish said:
Well can someone give me a cost to reload each round?

Thanks.
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Bullet and primer costs the same

Brass - 223 dirt cheap/free, hornet - I can price some for you but will be more.

Powder - 223 can use surplus pull down to H4350 depending on what you want to do. So costs will vary depending on the speed you want, type of powder you choose.

Can be less, can be more.

Hornet - prefers powders like WC1680, H4227, and H110. Similar cost per lb to the 223 stuff. You will use less powder but that works out to a few pennies per shot, again, depending on the receipe you want to use.

So the cost between the two is near identical - if you get your 223 brass for cheap/free, then the 223 is the less expensive rd.

If all you want is a short range walkabout varmint rifle, something like a Bruno Fox/ CZ527 in a 22 hornet would be a wonderful set up. I would suggest you look for the Fox with the set triggers - I loved mine in 222R.

But hornet cannot offer any more performance.

The 223 is simply more flexible and is also available in the Fox :)

Best solution is buy one of each....

Jerry
 
average load in the hornet 12gr. average load in the .223 22gr
lil-gun for the hornet not sure for the .223 H322 or varget

I bet with the extra cost of the brass for the Hornet and the extra cost of the powder for the .223 these two rounds would be the same to reload. That being said, If you were to buy the Ammo .223 is way cheaper
 
Well I guess I will get a .223 as it seems it is the most economic round to fire.

Thank you for all the help guys.

Mystic Precision said:
Best solution is buy one of each....

Jerry
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I would love to but I have university next year. Thank you for the write up as it was very informative.

steve62 said:
average load in the hornet 12gr. average load in the .223 22gr
lil-gun for the hornet not sure for the .223 H322 or varget

I bet with the extra cost of the brass for the Hornet and the extra cost of the powder for the .223 these two rounds would be the same to reload. That being said, If you were to buy the Ammo .223 is way cheaper
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Yeah, availability seems to be the issue with .22 Hornet.

trevj said:
End of day, your money, your choice. You are gonna have fun with it no matter if you get the same as everyone else has, or the only one like it anywhere.

Cheers
Trev
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Those are some pretty true words. Thank you for your time.
 
I own a Savage 24F in .22 Hornet/12ga, an NEF .22 Hornet and a Stevens 200 in .223.

While I really like my Savage 24, I haven't scoped it yet and have usually used it for upland game, for deer with slugs and for Turkey with an exta full-choke in the smoothbore barrel (no rifle rounds for the latter!). I'll probably mount a red-dot that I've purchased for it later this year. As far as I can see, the Hornet is a nice, underrated round for small game and varmints up to coyote, and an ideal place for those areas of Southern Ontario where population density or thick bush limits the need for the more conventional varmint rounds. Light recoil and especially the report makes it ideal for many uses.

I haven't used the NEF in a while (It was $266 new) and will probably get rid of it while keeping any eye out for an older Savage 340 bolt gun in that calibre if I can find one for the right price. The Hornet is also one of the first cartridges that I've reloaded for, and like the fact that it's not expensive to do so.

Since you're tending towards the .223 (which as has been pointed out is hardly a bad choice!) I would point out that the Stevens 200 in .223 is a very good rifle available in that calibre for a decent price. Mine was $319 plus taxes and shipping. It only has a cheap Tasco scope on it at present (I'd recommend something better) but I really enjoy practicing with it at 200 yards, and would be very confident taking it out for coyotes or groundhogs. Though I haven't begun reloading for it yet, I've already collected tons of brass on the range (the same cannot be said for the Hornet) and would probably just load it down to standard Hornet velocities (or even subsonic for certain applications) once I get the dies and components.

I say keep an eye out for the Stevens, since with the introduction of the economy-grade Savage Edge, it's not clear whether the Stevens 200 line will stay in production for long. Someone gave a very favourable review for the Edge on this forum a few days ago, but since the 200 is based on the long proven Savage 110 action, it's long-term durability is beyond doubt. Of course, there's also a ton of other quality bolt-guns out there and I'm sure that one of those, whether new or used, would serve you fine.

Regards,

Frank
 
The 223 is a mainstream round, likely to give about 100 more yards of usable accuracy.

That being said, I use a 22 Hornet. I enjoy everything about it. The Hornet has a heritage and mystique that makes it special and fun to play with. It is ideal for small game or casual plinking.
 
^ True that. The hornet is wicked fun, though I can't really explain why. If I could keep only one of my centerfire varmint guns, it would be my hornet. Hands down, I wouldn't even have to think about it.

I've go a brno fox 2 in 222 remington. I've worked up a nice light hornet-level load for it, but it just has none of the charm of the Hornet. And I find that having multiple loads for one gun just isn't practical, it means you're always stuck fiddling with your scope and your zero. Not so bad if you're at the range, but a real pain in the ass when you're you're out in the fields.

And I've got a stevens 223, as well as a tikka 223. I think the tikka would probably be my second-best choice for a varmint gun, but that's way way way behind the hornet. It's just so much louder, so much more 'work' to shoot than the hornet. And it feels silly nailing gophers at 70-150 yards with a 223, massive overkill. But with the hornet - not so much.
 
Like Prosper said.


I have all 3. The Hornet is great for ground hogs in a small area near a farm. Does not make enough noice to make the famer nervous. I shoot it satnding in fields with tall grass. Works well to 150 yards.

223 with a 1:9 or faster abrrel will shoot great to any distance you want, including 1000 yards. I use 55gr at 100-200, 69gr at 300 and 75 or 80 gr beyond 300. It lasts me 5,000 to 7000 rounds per barrel.

The 22-250 does not do much a 223 won't do unless it has a 1:9 barrel. The factory 1:12 or 1:14 barrel only shoots light bullets and they drift with the wind beyond 200.

With a fast twist I get 3400 fps with 80's (mine is an Ackley). But barrel life is about 1000 rounds. After 4 barrels I gave up on it.

For a first, star with a 223 fast twist. I can be down laoded to Hornet vleocity if needed for some applciations.

I find Hornet a bit miserable to load.
 
Although it doesn't meet the original criteria, a 17 Rem Fire Ball is a fun little round with good range.
 
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