Newb Question - Pistol mags for .223/5.56?

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ravagex

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Alright I know I'm wading into deep waters here, but can someone explain to me like I am an idiot (I am) how pistol mags that take .223 and 5.56 are not subject to the 5 round capacity restriction if slapped into your rifle?

I've read over the exact wording and I sort of understand, but wouldn't this imply that these LAR15 and Cross Industries mags have a pistol platform they are meant to be used in, and just by 'happy coincidence' they fit the AR15 platform?

I just would like to be very clear before I buy anything, and ESPECIALLY if I ventured out onto crown land with these in my possession....

I apologize if this has been discussed or explained ad nauseam elsewhere, I'm brand new to this forum and liberal gun world...my google searches never lead me anywhere with a satisfying explanation

thanks
 
ravagex said:
I've read over the exact wording and I sort of understand, but wouldn't this imply that these LAR15 and Cross Industries mags have a pistol platform they are meant to be used in
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yes companies make pistols that take ar15 style magazines.

there is an rmcp memo saying it's ok to use 10 round ar 15 pistal mags in a rifle. I suggest you find and print a copy to bring with you.

edit: you want the 2011 rcmp bulletin 72. find the actual bulletin on rmcp letterhead. I have it but I can't attach anything.

"4. Magazines designed for one firearm but used in a different firearm
The maximum permitted capacity of a magazine is determined by the kind of firearm it is designed or
manufactured for use in and not the kind of firearm it might actually be used in. As a consequence, the
maximum permitted capacity remains the same regardless of which firearm it might be used in.
Example:
The Marlin model 45 (Camp Carbine) rifle chambered for 45 Auto caliber uses magazines designed and
manufactured for the Colt 1911 handgun, therefore the seven round and eight round capacities are
permitted. A similar example is the 10 round capacity magazine for the Rock River Arms LAR-15 pistol,
regardless of the kind of firearm it is actually used in."
 
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This is actually a great topic and quite relevant to those of us who use the LAR15s.

Some points to mention.

1. 2011 RCMP memo indicating the permissive use of mags like LAR15. Unfortunately since then, the official same document that the RCMP used, which is still online, now OMITS the part about the LAR15 magazines.

2. Ian Runkle mentioned specifically in one of his videos that it is a slippery slope/grey area.

[youtube]BS9QNBmr4cM[/youtube]

3. Ed Burlew, a prominent and well established and respected firearms lawyer and a member of this site, indicated a couple of months back to proceed with caution with LAR15 mags as some of his clients have been charged while in possession of these:

Here is Mr. Burlew's post: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...ted-by-OIC?p=18384486&viewfull=1#post18384486

My thoughts before I read any of this was that, well I can buy these LAR15 mags at many of the sponsor retailers, so if it wasn't legal would they be selling them? I personally still use them myself when I go to the range. At least for now. Not saying you should, but retailers are still selling them and no one has been charged (yet).

I totally understand the confusion, because...

I have a Ruger 10/22 as well. Years ago, I bought Butler Creek 25-round banana mags. This is like in the early to mid-2000s. I could buy them at LeBaron and I used them at the range. Fast forward to earlier this year...I was using them and someone told me years ago, these things were banned in Canada...because they ALSO happen to fit in the Ruger Charger Pistol (which came out around 2007 or 2009). Well, I bought my Butler Creek 25-round mag BEFORE the Charger was even a product in the Ruger line...it clearly was NOT designed for the Charger pistol (packaging says it is designed for the Ruger 10/22) even though it fit into the Charger. But apparently because it fits into the Charger pistol I can't use it as it is or I have to pin it at 10. Stores haven't sold the Butler Creek 25 round mags in years as it is now considered prohibited (or so I am told).

Yet the LAR15 not designed to be used in a WK or a X95 or an MCR or whatever is apparently permitted to be use in them, even though it wasn't designed to be used in that and can be freely bought in normal retail channels.
 
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thegazelle said:
This is actually a great topic and quite relevant to those of us who use the LAR15s.

Some points to mention.

1. 2011 RCMP memo indicating the permissive use of mags like LAR15. Unfortunately since then, the official same document that the RCMP used, which is still online, now OMITS the part about the LAR15 magazines.

2. Ian Runkle mentioned specifically in one of his videos that it is a slippery slope/grey area.

**Image and video linking functions will be enabled after you have contributed more to the forum**

3. Ed Burlew, a prominent and well established and respected firearms lawyer and a member of this site, indicated a couple of months back to proceed with caution with LAR15 mags as some of his clients have been charged while in possession of these:

Here is Mr. Burlew's post: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...ted-by-OIC?p=18384486&viewfull=1#post18384486

My thoughts before I read any of this was that, well I can buy these LAR15 mags at many of the sponsor retailers, so if it wasn't legal would they be selling them? I personally still use them myself when I go to the range. At least for now. Not saying you should, but retailers are still selling them and no one has been charged (yet).

I totally understand the confusion, because...

I have a Ruger 10/22 as well. Years ago, I bought Butler Creek 25-round banana mags. This is like in the early to mid-2000s. I could buy them at LeBaron and I used them at the range. Fast forward to earlier this year...I was using them and someone told me years ago, these things were banned in Canada...because they ALSO happen to fit in the Ruger Charger Pistol (which came out around 2007 or 2009). Well, I bought my Butler Creek 25-round mag BEFORE the Charger was even a product in the Ruger line...it clearly was NOT designed for the Charger pistol (packaging says it is designed for the Ruger 10/22) even though it fit into the Charger. But apparently because it fits into the Charger pistol I can't use it as it is or I have to pin it at 10. Stores haven't sold the Butler Creek 25 round mags in years as it is now considered prohibited (or so I am told).

Yet the LAR15 not designed to be used in a WK or a X95 or an MCR or whatever is apparently permitted to be use in them, even though it wasn't designed to be used in that and can be freely bought in normal retail channels.
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I had a crap load of ATRS 10 round .223/.556 magazines for their AR pistol. Now prohibited so they've all been destroyed. S.O.B! Thankyou "Sparkly Socks and "Whiskey Bill".
 
OracleBryston1 said:
I had a crap load of ATRS 10 round .223/.556 magazines for their AR pistol. Now prohibited so they've all been destroyed. S.O.B! Thankyou "Sparkly Socks and "Whiskey Bill".
Click to expand...

Hey look at you go good citizen!!! Your masters are pleased and will award you with a higher social credit score!!! You will be allowed to buy groceries this week as a reward for your good deeds :)
 
jiffx2781 said:
Hey look at you go good citizen!!! Your masters are pleased and will award you with a higher social credit score!!! You will be allowed to buy groceries this week as a reward for your good deeds :)
Click to expand...

Now that's just nasty! Living in a very small town, the RCMP know exactly who has what and where and are not afraid to check things out. After a long, bitter divorce, where everything was divulged, I just don't need the grief of a visit for inspection. Also $11,000 worth of ATRS AR's collecting moths :(! This isn't just a case of giving in to those ba...rds, it's self preservation around here. It just is what it is here, I'm not a sellout by any means. I'm looking to lose a small fortune if this BS doesn't come to pass. I had to reset my account here simply because of "the other", now a "newbie" again. I was once a regular, buying, selling or giving to others in need, high feedback score. All of this crap has ruined what used to be wonderful.
 
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OracleBryston1 said:
Now that's just nasty! Living in a very small town, the RCMP know exactly who has what and where and are not afraid to check things out. After a long, bitter divorce, where everything was divulged, I just don't need the grief of a visit for inspection. Also $11,000 worth of ATRS AR's collecting moths :(! This isn't just a case of giving in to those ba...rds, it's self preservation around here. It just is what it is here, I'm not a sellout by any means. I'm looking to lose a small fortune if this BS doesn't come to pass.
Click to expand...

You're not the only one looking to lose a small fortune because of this stupidity. It sucks. And just in case you missed it... my previous post was just an attempt at a bit of humor. Not trying to bust your chops, you do whatever works for you.
 
If worse comes to worse and ten round magazines get the ban hammer, you should be able to rivet them to five rounds yourself at home, especially if you buy pmags like the Canadian made Cross Mags.
 
OracleBryston1 said:
Now that's just nasty! Living in a very small town, the RCMP know exactly who has what and where and are not afraid to check things out. After a long, bitter divorce, where everything was divulged, I just don't need the grief of a visit for inspection. Also $11,000 worth of ATRS AR's collecting moths :(! This isn't just a case of giving in to those ba...rds, it's self preservation around here. It just is what it is here, I'm not a sellout by any means. I'm looking to lose a small fortune if this BS doesn't come to pass. I had to reset my account here simply because of "the other", now a "newbie" again. I was once a regular, buying, selling or giving to others in need, high feedback score. All of this crap has ruined what used to be wonderful.
Click to expand...

Hey man, appreciate your honesty. I feel for you and where you are coming from as I also came out on the other side of an extremely contentious divorce and custody battle (I have written about it numerous times on here in great detail, so won't rehash it out here). I totally understand where you are coming from and yep, after dealing with the cops so many times, I just don't have the appetite I once did. That being said, we both have different perspectives and positions on this one but I can respect your decision given your circumstances.

I wasn't aware that in smaller towns the RCMP would take more liberties than they otherwise would. We have a number of police officers on this site and some of them have already openly stated that they will not participate in any confiscation efforts, so it may not be as clean of an execution of such an effort as the government would think. I personally don't think there will be any confiscation, but instead they will just choke out the supply chain for components/ammo and then just decide not to renew your PAL/RPAL. This is the government, the same one that can just kill a business with over-regulation and onerous red tape.
 
thegazelle said:
Hey man, appreciate your honesty. I feel for you and where you are coming from as I also came out on the other side of an extremely contentious divorce and custody battle (I have written about it numerous times on here in great detail, so won't rehash it out here). I totally understand where you are coming from and yep, after dealing with the cops so many times, I just don't have the appetite I once did. That being said, we both have different perspectives and positions on this one but I can respect your decision given your circumstances.

I wasn't aware that in smaller towns the RCMP would take more liberties than they otherwise would. We have a number of police officers on this site and some of them have already openly stated that they will not participate in any confiscation efforts, so it may not be as clean of an execution of such an effort as the government would think. I personally don't think there will be any confiscation, but instead they will just choke out the supply chain for components/ammo and then just decide not to renew your PAL/RPAL. This is the government, the same one that can just kill a business with over-regulation and onerous red tape.
Click to expand...

I went after a renewal 1 1/2 months ago. Nothing and no info from them either. Now no license and everything stored elsewhere. Things are getting stalled out and they use Covid as an excuse. Real nice.
 
thegazelle said:
This is actually a great topic and quite relevant to those of us who use the LAR15s.

Some points to mention.

1. 2011 RCMP memo indicating the permissive use of mags like LAR15. Unfortunately since then, the official same document that the RCMP used, which is still online, now OMITS the part about the LAR15 magazines.

2. Ian Runkle mentioned specifically in one of his videos that it is a slippery slope/grey area.

[youtube]BS9QNBmr4cM[/youtube]

3. Ed Burlew, a prominent and well established and respected firearms lawyer and a member of this site, indicated a couple of months back to proceed with caution with LAR15 mags as some of his clients have been charged while in possession of these:

Here is Mr. Burlew's post: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...ted-by-OIC?p=18384486&viewfull=1#post18384486

My thoughts before I read any of this was that, well I can buy these LAR15 mags at many of the sponsor retailers, so if it wasn't legal would they be selling them? I personally still use them myself when I go to the range. At least for now. Not saying you should, but retailers are still selling them and no one has been charged (yet).

I totally understand the confusion, because...

I have a Ruger 10/22 as well. Years ago, I bought Butler Creek 25-round banana mags. This is like in the early to mid-2000s. I could buy them at LeBaron and I used them at the range. Fast forward to earlier this year...I was using them and someone told me years ago, these things were banned in Canada...because they ALSO happen to fit in the Ruger Charger Pistol (which came out around 2007 or 2009). Well, I bought my Butler Creek 25-round mag BEFORE the Charger was even a product in the Ruger line...it clearly was NOT designed for the Charger pistol (packaging says it is designed for the Ruger 10/22) even though it fit into the Charger. But apparently because it fits into the Charger pistol I can't use it as it is or I have to pin it at 10. Stores haven't sold the Butler Creek 25 round mags in years as it is now considered prohibited (or so I am told).

Yet the LAR15 not designed to be used in a WK or a X95 or an MCR or whatever is apparently permitted to be use in them, even though it wasn't designed to be used in that and can be freely bought in normal retail channels.
Click to expand...


The 25 round 10/22 mags are "prohibited"; as interpreted by the RCMP. Kind of like an FRT prohibition.... it has to do with the manufacturer of either the charger pistol or some of the 25 rounds mags advertising it for use in the charger pistol. So if it hadn't been marketed for use in a pistol that is available in Canada... it would be fine. Again... kind of like an FRT prohibition... although not prescribed, that's the RCMP interpretation and essentially use at your own risk. I'd rather not have my name become case law.

The LAR mags have been fine because they are marketed for use specifically in AR pistols, which are lawfully available in Canada. If they just so happen to fit in any number of rifles then so be it. There is nothing that says you can't. I imagine there would be a problem if the LAR mags were marketed as rifle mags as well. This OIC crap will likely change the legality of that because there will no longer be any AR pistols lawfully available in Canada...
 
theayeman said:
The LAR mags have been fine because they are marketed for use specifically in AR pistols, which are lawfully available in Canada. If they just so happen to fit in any number of rifles then so be it. There is nothing that says you can't. I imagine there would be a problem if the LAR mags were marketed as rifle mags as well. This OIC crap will likely change the legality of that because there will no longer be any AR pistols lawfully available in Canada...
Click to expand...

There is a STANAG .223 pistol that has yet to be banned by the OIC. I will not name it here, but you can research it. I'm not sure if the LAR magazines would have to be re-labelled to that firearm, or if its existence would be enough to allowed the continued use. Only time will tell.
 
Lookingforantiques said:
Always new accounts acting strangely. Just let us have our toys in peace
Click to expand...

Lol is that suggesting I'm a LEO or FED? Ridiculous, I'm all for tin foil hats (especially these days) but give me a break... just trying to learn what won't get me thrown in jail when I take my new toy out. Is this NOT the place to ask these kinds of questions?

To the rest of the posters who responded with info and resources - thank you. I purchased a few of those Cross 10+10 mags but you've given me some food for thought before I venture out with them. The guys at the retailer that sold them to me certainly didn't give my any indication that this could be an issue, but hey, sales a sale so I understand that.
 
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