Newbe questions

DGY

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Ok got all my reloading stuff, I have 3 powders and 3 bullets I want to try. The caliber is 9.3x62, the rifle is Ruger no1 with 22” barrel.
Powders are, H4895, IMR4064 and IMR4166
Bullets are, 290gr Matrix, 286gr Norma yellow tip and 286gr Swift Aframe
Primers are, Federal 215
Brass are, once fired S&B and new PPU

My question is what is the best and simplest way to develop a load w/o wasting components?
Thanks
 
There is no quick and easy way to develop a load without using up some components that I know of. you can try starting with a known load from someone who has the same rifle, but same rifles don't always mean same results with loads. But it can save some components by giving you a starting place.

I start by loading varying charge weights. Usually vary these by .5 grains. I load ten of each weight. Shoot them to see what gives best accuracy and most consistent speeds. Once the most accurate charge weight out of those is determined I load some more rounds at slightly higher and lower charges than the original to narrow it down even more. Varying these by .1 grain. When that is done I then move on to seating depth to find what gives the best results. I generally get very good results doing this.

It's a long process but worth it in the end in my humble opinion. Best of luck.
 
General rules of thumb: 1) Use a powder that gives 100%, or close to it, loading density. 2) Powders that produce higher or highest velocities as compared to other powders listed, generally produce excellent accuracy. 3) Always start below maximum loads listed and watch carefully for pressure signs. 4)Seat bullet at book COL, determine the best powder first, then play with the seating depth. Good luck.
 
Go to your loading manual or online source for rifle loads, and decide which powder you intend to use based on which provides the highest velocity for the bullet weight you intend to use. The first thing I do is determine what the maximum load is in my rifle by starting 5 grs below published maximum, then increase the powder charges in 1 gr increments. Some prefer half grain increments, but I've found this might not tell you anything if there is significant variation in the powder volume from case to case. You have reached the maximum load for your rifle when you see flattened primers and/or ejector marks on the case head. This might exceed the maximum load listed in the manual, or it might not even reach it. I tend to seat the bullet long enough that it touches the lands, which produces the highest pressure. If you have difficulty extracting a fired case you've gone too far, and you need to stop immediately. Once pressure signs are observed, I back off a full grain and determine that to be my maximum load. The logic is that accumulated variations of case to case powder volumes, if you throw charges, variations in powder charges, or variations in bullet weights, won't combine to cause problems like sticky extraction and short case life.

Now you can begin shooting groups, 3 shots per group is sufficient. If accuracy is not up to your expectations, you can experiment with seating the bullet deeper in the neck, reducing the cartridge over all length, thereby increasing the jump to the lands, or try shooting groups with lighter powder charges. Usually a load will let you know if it wants to shoot, and only minor adjustments, like a quarter or half grain difference in powder charge or a quarter turn in on the bullet seater stem, will allow you to hit the sweet spot. If the initial load doesn't group within 2" move on to a different powder, following the same procedure. Lighter loads may or may not be more accurate, but do not attempt to shoot heavier loads; you've already determined the maximum load. Any adjustment you make in cartridge length or charge weight from the known maximum load, should reduce pressure.

By loading to normal pressure for your cartridge and rifle, rather than hot rodding your loads, you will maximize the life of your brass, and annealing case necks will help as well. An expanded primer pocket that will not firmly hold the new primer in place, must be culled. Brass is the most expensive component of your ammunition, so any effort you go to extend its life is beneficial. When you have fired brass to reload, before threading the full length sizing die into your press, put a cartridge case in the shell holder and run the ram to the top of its stroke. Now thread in the die until you feel contact with the case neck. Back off the ram, then turn the full length sizing die in a full turn, then run the ram back up. Lower the ram and examine your case and you will see a portion of the neck is resized. Once you have incrementally adjusted the die down so that half the three quarters of the neck is resized, attempt to chamber the case in your rifle. If you meet resistance, turn the die down a half turn and resize again, repeat as required. Once you are able to chamber the cartridge without resistance, you should not resize it any more, lock the die in place, and resize the rest of your brass. You might want to confirm that the other pieces of brass also chamber without resistance, but they should all be a mirror image of the chamber they are fired in, and should all respond to the same amount of resizing. This process will maximize the life of your brass since you are not overworking it, which can quickly lead to cracks appearing ahead of the case web, or worse, case head separation.

Keep good records.
 
Thanks a lot that is great info! Regarding the resising die, Lee said in the I do coming with the dies to do as you said, but only turn 1/4 or 1/3 of a turn!! I try to follow the instructions as best I can so I hope I didn’t screw things up!!
 
Thanks a lot that is great info! Regarding the resising die, Lee said in the I do coming with the dies to do as you said, but only turn 1/4 or 1/3 of a turn!! I try to follow the instructions as best I can so I hope I didn’t screw things up!!

Follow the instructions for setting up your FL sizing die that are included with your Lee die set. I use RCBS and Redding almost exclusively, so the technique I use to set up my FL sizing die might not be appropriate for you. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Lee Dies, and I do use their factory crimp die for some cartridges, but I began with RCBS, and that is the system I prefer to stick with. The key is not to overwork your brass, and the old advise to crank down the sizing die until you have firm contact with the shell holder is not appropriate in all circumstances. I still set up the FL sizing die that way when I load for .30/06 because i have more than one .30/06 rifle and don't know in advance which rifle the ammo will be used in. I also have a lot of .30/06 brass, so short brass life isn't as big a deal as it might be for someone with just 50 or 100 pieces.
 
Developing a load.
My minimum powder charge for this bullet and Powder is 54.8, maximum is 59.1, so I rounded this off, and load 3 each at 55,56,57,58,59.
I use book length, from the data, 3.920.
Shoot these from mildest to hottest, looking for signs of excessive pressure.
From Richard Lee:
The report is loudes and recoil is greater.
Difficult extraction.
Flattened primers. Use a magnifying glass to examine cases.
Head enlargement, measure before and after firing. You must use a micrometer accurate to .0001.
Ejector recess is embossed on the head.
Loose primer pockets.
Gun blows up.

Stop and pull bullets on hotter loads if pressure signs are present.

Evaluate accuracy. Choose best group.

Try small increments of powder charge above and below best load.

Find your maximum seating depth. Size a case. Seat a bullet too long to chamber. Turn the seating stem down 1/4 turn at a time, try the dummy cartridge in the chamber until it closes. This is your “touching the lands” cartridge length. Try different seating depths.

Link to seating depth info:

https://bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/

Guess you’ve burned up a lot of components, but it was fun, and you learned a lot about your rifle.
Good luck.
 
Don’t forget to keep good notes. My notes include,

Date Load ID
FALSE Bullet
FALSE Powder
FALSE Primer
FALSE CBTO length
FALSE Headstamp
FALSE Times fired
FALSE Clean and inspect case
FALSE Size neck or full
FALSE Clean primer pockets
FALSE Brush i/s case mouth
FALSE Trim to length
FALSE Chamfer mouth
FALSE
FALSE Prime
FALSE Add powder
FALSE Seat bullet
FALSE Factory crimp
FALSE Check neck tension
FALSE Remove lube
FALSE
FALSE Notes:
FALSE
FALSE
FALSE
FALSE
FALSE
FALSE
FALSE

Please ignore the copy and paste error.
 
Thank you! I read a bit about the ladder test to use less components, is it a valuable option? I’m not a F class shooter but just a hunter that keeps his shot inside 200m on moose and bisons! Just asking!
Thanks again for all the info!
David
 
The advice above is excellent. No need for a ladder test.

For practical purposes, the 3 bullets are the same weight, so you can use the same powder charge.

if it was me, i would buy some 286gr Hornady bullets (cheap) and do the preliminary load development with them.

Something you can do before loading is to set a cartridge overall length for each bullet. because each has a different shape, they will need different seating depths to keep the bullet just off the lands.

The objective is to find a decent load that is not too hot, reasonably accurate WITHOUT shooting all the bullets.

In a Mauser, with is big extractor and big bolt you can load a bit hot and risk having to pound the bolt open. For your Ruger hunting rifle, you want to stay well clear of any pressure problems.

You have PPU and once fired brass. Weigh samples of each (after sizing the once fired) and do your load development with the heavier batch of brass. The lighter brass will develop a bit less pressure.

Size the brass so that the full length sizer almost hits the shell plate. Size a few, wipe them clean and try chambering and extracting. They should go in and out easily. If it takes any effort to close the action, turn the sizer down a half turn.

Once you know how much to size them, size all the cases. Chamfer the case mouths, so they don't scratch the bullets.

Take an un primed case and seat a bullet in quite long and then with your thumb, gently push it into the chamber. The bullet should hit the rifling and prevent the case from chambering. Pull the case out and seat the bullet deeper, and re-try chambering. Keep doing this until the case will chamber and the action will close without pushing the bullet into the rifling. If it does, you will feel a bit of resistance getting the case out and there will be rifling marks on the bullet. If the round chambers ok, seat the bullet a half rev of the seater stem deeper. This is a good hunting bullet OAL (Over All Length) Well clear of the rifling of YOUR rifle. (Each rifle is quite different.) The "book" OAL is meaningless.

Do this for each brand of bullet, and note the OAL for that bullet in your log book.

The 3 powders you have are all quite similar. I would use the 4166 because it would probably fill the case more than the other two.

I would load 4 rounds of the first bullet (I would use the cheapest) at 55, 56, 57 and 58 gr. Three of each.

Shoot these for grouping at 100 yards, with lots of cooling time between the 3 shots. Any of these loads has enough power for hunting. All you want is the one that seems to shoot the best. Pay close attention to how the action opens and what the cases and primers look like. Any sign of pressure - stop. Pull the rest of the ammo apart. use the load that did not have problems.

Lets say the 57 gr of 4166 load shot well. You can use the same load with the other bullets - with their unique OAL.

If you have a 4166 load and want to try 4895 and 4064, load them with 4 and 5 gr less powder and compare the groups.
 
The advice above is excellent. No need for a ladder test.

For practical purposes, the 3 bullets are the same weight, so you can use the same powder charge.

if it was me, i would buy some 286gr Hornady bullets (cheap) and do the preliminary load development with them.

Something you can do before loading is to set a cartridge overall length for each bullet. because each has a different shape, they will need different seating depths to keep the bullet just off the lands.

The objective is to find a decent load that is not too hot, reasonably accurate WITHOUT shooting all the bullets.

In a Mauser, with is big extractor and big bolt you can load a bit hot and risk having to pound the bolt open. For your Ruger hunting rifle, you want to stay well clear of any pressure problems.

You have PPU and once fired brass. Weigh samples of each (after sizing the once fired) and do your load development with the heavier batch of brass. The lighter brass will develop a bit less pressure.

Size the brass so that the full length sizer almost hits the shell plate. Size a few, wipe them clean and try chambering and extracting. They should go in and out easily. If it takes any effort to close the action, turn the sizer down a half turn.

Once you know how much to size them, size all the cases. Chamfer the case mouths, so they don't scratch the bullets.

Take an un primed case and seat a bullet in quite long and then with your thumb, gently push it into the chamber. The bullet should hit the rifling and prevent the case from chambering. Pull the case out and seat the bullet deeper, and re-try chambering. Keep doing this until the case will chamber and the action will close without pushing the bullet into the rifling. If it does, you will feel a bit of resistance getting the case out and there will be rifling marks on the bullet. If the round chambers ok, seat the bullet a half rev of the seater stem deeper. This is a good hunting bullet OAL (Over All Length) Well clear of the rifling of YOUR rifle. (Each rifle is quite different.) The "book" OAL is meaningless.

Do this for each brand of bullet, and note the OAL for that bullet in your log book.

The 3 powders you have are all quite similar. I would use the 4166 because it would probably fill the case more than the other two.

I would load 4 rounds of the first bullet (I would use the cheapest) at 55, 56, 57 and 58 gr. Three of each.

Shoot these for grouping at 100 yards, with lots of cooling time between the 3 shots. Any of these loads has enough power for hunting. All you want is the one that seems to shoot the best. Pay close attention to how the action opens and what the cases and primers look like. Any sign of pressure - stop. Pull the rest of the ammo apart. use the load that did not have problems.

Lets say the 57 gr of 4166 load shot well. You can use the same load with the other bullets - with their unique OAL.

If you have a 4166 load and want to try 4895 and 4064, load them with 4 and 5 gr less powder and compare the groups.

Ok that is starting to make sense.... oufff I’m slow sorry!
That said, all the loads I’ve looked in books all start at let say 49-50gr and the Max is no more than 55.5gr..... and I know most people go beyond that.... so what is the reason to follow the books if all there max loads are not even close to Max loads hahaha?
 
Ok that is starting to make sense.... oufff I’m slow sorry!
That said, all the loads I’ve looked in books all start at let say 49-50gr and the Max is no more than 55.5gr..... and I know most people go beyond that.... so what is the reason to follow the books if all there max loads are not even close to Max loads hahaha?

First off, ....... do you enjoy two hands and eyes? Second, ... their suggestions are based on the test rifle they were using, usually listed in the info. Third, ..... no two rifles or firearms are identical and the manufacturers don't like lawsuits!
 
Thanks a lot that is great info! Regarding the resising die, Lee said in the I do coming with the dies to do as you said, but only turn 1/4 or 1/3 of a turn!! I try to follow the instructions as best I can so I hope I didn’t screw things up!!

The threads on your dies are 7/8" National Course. That means each turn will raise or lower the die .111 inches or 2.82mm.

By dividing numbers by the segment of the turn on the die, will give you a pretty close idea of how much you are adjusting with each adjustment. When I'm setting up my dies, I use a black felt marker to give an indicator mark on the die and the top of the press. The same can be done with the bullet seating stem. Makes adjustments much easier.

I have some dies where I've scribed lines on the top of the seating stem. to make life easier when switching to bullets with different ogive profiles. Just keep a written record of what your doing so you can easily go to that setting again, if you go back to that bullet. This can happen when the bullet you like isn't available for some reason and need to go to another, until your bullet come back in stock.

Some companies make dies with micrometer seating devices already on them or they can be purchased separately for just about any standard dimension die.
 
Ok that is starting to make sense.... oufff I’m slow sorry!
That said, all the loads I’ve looked in books all start at let say 49-50gr and the Max is no more than 55.5gr..... and I know most people go beyond that.... so what is the reason to follow the books if all there max loads are not even close to Max loads hahaha?

You're only slow because the nomenclature hasn't been part of your vocabulary and when unfamiliar or unknown words, terms are used, confusion sets in. Pretty much the same for everyone that's just starting out.

Want to confuse a newbie or put them off. Confuse the heck out of them with non layman's descriptions he/she has never heard before or can relate to, without a trip to the computer.

Ganderite is usually pretty explicit and easy to understand. He goes by the KISS principal
 
You're only slow because the nomenclature hasn't been part of your vocabulary and when unfamiliar or unknown words, terms are used, confusion sets in. Pretty much the same for everyone that's just starting out.

Want to confuse a newbie or put them off. Confuse the heck out of them with non layman's descriptions he/she has never heard before or can relate to, without a trip to the computer.

Ganderite is usually pretty explicit and easy to understand. He goes by the KISS principal

Yes thanks all good stuff!! And that is what I was realizing last night talking to a friend, how every time I read a post from Ganderite, how much sense he make and how well worded and “simple” he explains things!
 
Ok that is starting to make sense.... oufff I’m slow sorry!
That said, all the loads I’ve looked in books all start at let say 49-50gr and the Max is no more than 55.5gr..... and I know most people go beyond that.... so what is the reason to follow the books if all there max loads are not even close to Max loads hahaha?

The Max in the book was the MAx in THEIR rifle. They share that with you as an interesting bit of info. It does not mean that is MAx in your rifle. A small difference in your rifle's chamber throat could mean that their Max is a pipe bomb in your rifle - or a mild load.

You have to determine the appropriate OAL for your rifle and also the range of loads that work well in your rifle.

A well-made rifle will usually not show an distress when over-loaded. The only way to know you are too hot is by bullet velocity. no free lunch. Extra velocity means extra pressure. So the MAx velocity in the book can be taken as a speed limit.

If you don't have a chronograph, I suggest you do not exceed book max, and you should check for pressure signs. Book max could easily be too hot in your rifle.

Each rifle is different. I have seen significant differences in "identical" rifles, including one rifle tat was way over max with the book Start load.


Loading for a hunting rifle is a bit different than loading for a plinker. Imagine the pickle you would be in if a hunting round would not chamber and got stuck. Or would not extract and the rim ripped off.

This is why you are looking for 3 rounds that group fairly close together that are not close to MAx pressure.

Some of us have learned all these lessons the hard way.
 
The Max in the book was the MAx in THEIR rifle. They share that with you as an interesting bit of info. It does not mean that is MAx in your rifle. A small difference in your rifle's chamber throat could mean that their Max is a pipe bomb in your rifle - or a mild load.

You have to determine the appropriate OAL for your rifle and also the range of loads that work well in your rifle.

A well-made rifle will usually not show an distress when over-loaded. The only way to know you are too hot is by bullet velocity. no free lunch. Extra velocity means extra pressure. So the MAx velocity in the book can be taken as a speed limit.

If you don't have a chronograph, I suggest you do not exceed book max, and you should check for pressure signs. Book max could easily be too hot in your rifle.

Each rifle is different. I have seen significant differences in "identical" rifles, including one rifle tat was way over max with the book Start load.


Loading for a hunting rifle is a bit different than loading for a plinker. Imagine the pickle you would be in if a hunting round would not chamber and got stuck. Or would not extract and the rim ripped off.

This is why you are looking for 3 rounds that group fairly close together that are not close to MAx pressure.

Some of us have learned all these lessons the hard way.
Make sense! Thank you!
 
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