Newbie .357 Mag question... 148 LRN w/ Titegroup

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Hi all. I'm new to reloading. I'm geared up, studied up, and have taken some advice from folks who do it.

Question... The first batch of bullets I bought were 148 LRN. (Confirmed samples with scale, typically 150 +/ 2.) BUT (silly me), I don't see any data on the Hodgdon site for this bullet. Here's what's in the ballpark (start/max for Titegroup)...

135 gr. CAST LRNFP: 3.5 - 5.2
148 gr. HDY LHBWC: 2.9 - 3.3
158 gr. CAST LSWC: 4.5 - 5.0

So would I be safe/reasonbale to use the start/max for 148 HDY LHBWC for 148 LRN? It's a much different bullet, I think, seated differently and with (I assume) different internal volume and pressure as a result. Seems like very little powder, but what do I know? I'm new... :confused:

What surprises me, is the lighter and heavier bullets both have heavier loads than than the 148 in their table. Maybe I'm confusing myself expecting to see a relationship through the range.

LOL, all I care about right now is 148 LRN over Titegroup. :)

Thanks for any insight...
 
I have never heard of a 148 grain lead round nose. Maybe something new.

You would be safe with the 148 JHBWC loads ( 2.9-3.3 ).
Wadcutters are used for target work as they cut nice clean round holes in the paper. Target loads tend to be on the light side as far as velocity & speed.
 
Yeah, I'm finding out these are really an uncommon weight in this caliber. Oh well. What I was/am most uncertain about is using a very light load (for wadcutter) behind a round nose of the same weight. But a start at 2.9 and working up from there would appear to be the safest approach I can take so that's what I'll try. Would failure on the low load end (using Titegroup) most likely take the form of bad accuracy or maybe a stuck bullet?

BTW, I just calipered the 148 gr. LRN bullets in question (pictured below) and they're just 0.001" or so larger than 158 gr. HDY XTP, as would be expected with a lead bullet, so at least they're not unusual in that measurement!

If I can get to the range this weekend I'll report back.

Thanks for helping a newbie. Cheers!

148_LRN.jpg
 
Are you loading in 38 spl or 357 Mag cases? Using a 38spl load in a 357 mag case will result in LOWER pressure and velocity.

Using too low a charge will give inconsistent results. Powders need a minimum amount of pressure to burn cleanly. When under no pressure, powders burn very slowly. You can try an experiment for yourself, put a trail of powder on something that won't burn and light it (do this outside) and you will see that it doesn't just "explode", but burns following the trail.

Use data for LHBWC and you will be fine, and you can also use data for 158g lead bullets as a comparison. You will find that loads for the 158g are a bit lighter than those for the 148g. (with the same powder of course)

As noted above, published loads for wadcutter bullets are almost always lower than other styles of bullets since max velocity is not used for target shooting.

Heavier bullets "move slower" so allow more pressure to build up, that is why loads with heavier bullets generally max out with lower powder charges (of the same powder) than lighter bullets.
 
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SandRoad said:
Are you loading in 38 spl or 357 Mag cases?
Click to expand...

.357 Mag. The excerpt of Hodgdon data above is also for .357 Mag.

SandRoad said:
Use data for LHBWC and you will be fine, and you can also use data for 158g lead bullets as a comparison.
Click to expand...

That's what I tried to do, but there's just no comparison. In the data above, LHBWC calls for 2.9 gr (start) to 3.3 gr (max). Then, 158g lead bullets (next on the list above) suggests 4.5 gr (start) to 5.0 gr (max). Huge leap.

To add another data point, my Hornady book suggests the bottom line below, all for Titegroup:
135 gr. CAST LRNFP: 3.5 - 5.2 (Hodgdon)
148 gr. HDY LHBWC: 2.9 - 3.3 (Hodgdon)
158 gr. CAST LSWC: 4.5 - 5.0 (Hodgdon)
158 gr. LRN or LSWC: 2.9 - 4.1 (Hornady)

That's wildly different again. I know multiple data sources are suggested for reloaders, but this is confusing! :confused:

I appreciate the help. My conclusion so far is there's nothing yet that suggests 2.9 gr would be a bad or unsafe idea. :redface:
 
The difference in the manuals between the 148 LHBWC and 158g is strickly to do with the typical velocity it is fired. They 148g LHBWC ONLY as a target load so the max is sort of max target velocity.

The 158g is a general purpose bullet, not a specialty target bullet, so they load it up to max. You could easily load the 158g down to 2.9g.

In reality, the actual load range for the 148g is 2.9g to about 5.0g. However you wouldn't want to push it up to max velocity because there will be lots of leading on the inside of the barrel. That is why the recommenced lower max load.

The difference between the Cast and LSWC is also likely velocity related. Typically cast bullets can be made of a harder alloy than swagged lead bullets. The harder alloy permits higher velocities without leading, compared to the softer swagged bullets. LHBWC bullets are swagged not cast.

Hope this helps.
 
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2.9 grains of Titegroup should be a very mild load. I would not have any hesitation about using it. It will be safe.

You may want to phone Hodgdon at 913-362-9455 and speak to one of their experts in the reloading department. They are really helpful & great people to deal with. They can tell you exactly what you need.
 
This is why I have stated before that recommending more than one loading manual for a beginner, is only confusing for him.
None of the loads you are getting from a manual will create dangerous pressures in a strong gun.
Also, you are concerned about a supposedly 150 grain bullet weighing only 148 grains. Two grains difference in weight in a cast bullet is a nothing. It only means there is probably a bit more antimony in them, which has a lower specific gravity than lead.
Most of us who cast bullets use srap material we can scrounge and it is often different ratios of lead to hardening agents. My 44 bullets vary from about 250 to maybe over 260. I make no changes in loading for any of them.
 
You guys are all great. :) Thank you for explaining things a few times for me.

And thank you for the extra conern, H4831. I believe my gun to be strong and in good shape, despite its 20 years. (Ruger GP100.) Start low and ease up. Roger and out.
 
You are welcome for the info, and yes, you have a strong gun! If there is one statement you can safely make about a Ruger, it is that the gun will be strongly built.
I haven't used a GP100, but had quite a bit to do with the model before that one, the Ruger Security Six. It handled everything I fed it, including some pretty stiff loads! I used mainly Hercules 2400 and H110. I chronographed a lot of different loads with those two powders. Both were accurate in various amounts, probably H110 was best. I made 5 shot, 3" groups at 50 metres, using the silhouette style of shooting, with gas check 168 grain (approx.) bullets.
For light loads I used either Unique, or Winchester 231.
 
Update... so I loaded up nearly 100 rounds, varying from 3.0 to 3.4 gr. They all shot fine. (Except for the I-can't-aim-worth-s**t part.) So I'll carry on with the 3.0 gr loads for easy target practice that I so desperately need. I plan to try some CMJ/plated bullets soon so I can load something stiffer without filling my barrel up with lead from these dirty little ones...

Thanks again for the advice.
 
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