NEWBIE ALERT: what dies should I get

Proutfoo

Proutfoo

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I reload for 6.5x55 with a Lee Loader Classic ;)

I would like to get some Lee dies to go with a hand press, and I only wish to neck-size and seat bullets with the dies. I see there are several sets, collet, deluxe, rgb, etc.

What kit of dies should I get? I want to make sure I get one that neck sized by expanding from the inside, instead of the Lee Loader way of shrinking the neck from the outside. I also want to seat the bullet in this setup.

I already own the factory crimp die for this caliber.

Any tips for a newb?
 
Go with the Deluxe set - allows you to full length size or neck size. You'll need the full length sizing die at some point, after several reloads, or if you have more than one rifle and dont want to segregate brass. (I partially resize mine - gives the best of both worlds..)
Not sure I understand your comment about neck sizing. A fired case has an oversize neck that must be reduced in diameter to effectively grab the bullet. FL dies accomplish this by reducing the neck dia on the down stroke, then expanding the neck on the upstroke.
 
Go with the Deluxe set - allows you to full length size or neck size. You'll need the full length sizing die at some point, after several reloads, or if you have more than one rifle and dont want to segregate brass. (I partially resize mine - gives the best of both worlds..)
Not sure I understand your comment about neck sizing. A fired case has an oversize neck that must be reduced in diameter to effectively grab the bullet. FL dies accomplish this by reducing the neck dia on the down stroke, then expanding the neck on the upstroke.
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As I was saying, I use the Lee Loader, which neck-sizes only. The problem is, it neck-sized by reducing the neck size from the outside of the case only. Therefore, thicker brass will have a smaller diameter to seat the bullet than thinner brass, since it is not expanded from the inside. I want to make sure that the dies recommended will neck size using an expander from inside the case mouth, and not the method the Lee Loader uses.
 
Maybe their collet dies would work for you as the case neck is sueezed to a mandrel as apposed to a sub calibre plug comming up from the bottom.I assume you want to not work the brass as much as possible.
 
Maybe their collet dies would work for you as the case neck is sueezed to a mandrel
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I want the measurement to be made from the inside of the case, to avoid having the neck too small in the case of thicker brass and having the bullet expand the brass more than usual when seated.
 
I use a collet die for 6.5 x 55 - works fine for me. It can be adjusted to provde more or less neck tension, for instance if you want to load cast bullets. I have, however had some difficulty trying to seat cast bullets in lee dies - they hang up in the floating sleeve. If that's a concern, Lee's dies are standard thread and size - you can use other dies in a lee press.
 
As far as I know, you can't resize fired brass from the inside only. They have to be 'crushed' a bit so the bullet has an interference fit.

The Lee collet neck sizer works by squeezing the neck of the case against a mandrel that's inside the case at the same time. It can only size to this, no smaller. It doesn't matter how thick the case wall is, as the final inside neck dimension is determined by the mandrel.
If you want a smaller mandrel, I think you can contact Lee and order one, or have someone grind it down a bit. I did mine in a lathe. Took about 0.0008 off. Be careful. Very easy to f*ck things up.

(E) :cool:
 
The Lee collet neck sizer works by squeezing the neck of the case against a mandrel that's inside the case at the same time. It can only size to this, no smaller.
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Exactly, and I do not want the hole any smaller. The Lee Loader squeezes the neck from the outside, but provides absolutely no support in the inside whatsoever. So, if your brass is 1.5 or 2 times thicker than normal, you end up with a smaller hole inside the neck. When you seat the bullet, it is the bullet that does the work to expand the neck to the proper size, and in my case makes me end up with poor neck tension.

The outside neck size is always uniform; the inner diameter will be larger or smaller, depending on brass thickness. This is what I want to move away from by sizing with a die.
 
Proutfoo said:
Exactly, and I do not want the hole any smaller. The Lee Loader squeezes the neck from the outside, but provides absolutely no support in the inside whatsoever. So, if your brass is 1.5 or 2 times thicker than normal, you end up with a smaller hole inside the neck. No, the mandel is on the inside. No matter how thick the brass wall is, the inside of the neck can't be resized smaller than the mandrel. When you seat the bullet, it is the bullet that does the work to expand the neck to the proper size, and in my case makes me end up with poor neck tension.

The outside neck size is always uniform; the inner diameter will be larger or smaller, depending on brass thickness. This is what I want to move away from by sizing with a die.
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You want a interference fit between your bullets and cases. In the case of my .223, the neck is about 0.003 smaller than the bullet after case sizing. A good snug fit. If you have poor neck tension, it sounds like you need to squeeze the neck down more, or grind down the mandrel.
The outside neck size is always uniform
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in fired brass. Its conforming to the chamber size.

Before we continue this further, you might want to try and explain again what you're trying to achieve. Are you having a problem with neck tension? Bullets crushing the neck on insertion?
I'm just a little lost right now.

(E) :cool:
 
Before we continue this further, you might want to try and explain again what you're trying to achieve. Are you having a problem with neck tension? Bullets crushing the neck on insertion?
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OK. I have loads and loads of Igman brass, very thick. When I resize it with my Lee Loader (and hammer :D ) the neck is properly resized to accept the bullet, but the resizing is done from the outside of the neck only, no mandrel.

The diameter of the neck from the inside mics at 0.255 for Igman, and 0.260 for other brass (winchester, S&B). So when I seat the bullet, much more force is exerted by the bullet to the brass, resulting in copper shavings, and often very slightly loose bullets. As well, I think the neck sizing process by the Lee Loader is slightly tapered, so the work the brass needs to go through when I seat the bullet (again with my hammer :p ) screws up the neck tension completely. Everyone I have ever talked about this problem to on this forum and others suggest my Lee loader is the problem since they use Igman brass without problem.
 
Proutfoo said:
Everyone I have ever talked about this problem to on this forum and others suggest my Lee loader is the problem since they use Igman brass without problem.
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They're right. You can get either Lee Collet sizer (still neck-size only, but limited by the mandrel), or just get a regular die with an expander (RCBS, Hornady, etc.). The 'regular die' works your brass more and shortens the lifespan.
 
My own experiences with Igman brass in 6.5X55 were not positive! Brass is very thick, very hard to work (ie not ductile.), and of varying case weight. The lack of ductility was a problem - brass would spring back during sizing - a PITA... (I suspect you are getting some "springback", causing variable tension.) Also, the thick necks, when combined with some bullet types actually caused an interference fit in the chamber neck - not a good thing.
When I first started reloading, I didnt understand the significance of brass quality. Now I do. All substandard brass was jettisoned, and my shooting/reloading activities were benefitted accordingly.
 
When I first started reloading, I didnt understand the significance of brass quality. Now I do. All substandard brass was jettisoned, and my shooting/reloading activities were benefitted accordingly.
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The above and all you wrote is good advice. I still have hope for this brass since I plan to eventually get a AG42b and I hear they go through brass like hell. I have done some annealing attempts with some success, however I believe that my major problem is still that the bullet is acting as an expander when seated.
 
Well - Both the Lee neck sizing die, and the Lee FL die size to ID - the neck sizing die using a mandrel, and the FL die using the expander ball. Even with the correct neck ID (a few thou under bullet dia.) the bullets will still be harder to seat than other brass, as the thicker brass offers more resistance to expansion. (I believe Igman bullets are actually undersize to accomodate the thick brass...)
However, you should be better off than than your current setup. Are you trimming and chamfering the cases? Chamfering the cases (on both the inside and outside edge) will make seating easier, and reduce bullet shaving.
One remaining thing - your future Ljungmann would prefer brass that is not neck sized, so your going to need an FL die. I use FL dies, and only partially resize my brass to my tightest (rifle!) chamber - works exptremely well...
 
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One remaining thing - your future Ljungmann would prefer brass that is not neck sized, so your going to need an FL die. I use FL dies, and only partially resize my brass to my tightest (rifle!) chamber - works exptremely well...
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Yes, I remember reading that autoloaders need to be FL sized. I finally purchased the Lee deluxe set which includes a FL die.

I am chamfering inside and out of the case mouth before neck sizing. It does help alot the shavings. I have not trimmed yet since they are once-fired and are not much longer than they were before when they were factory length.
 
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