newbie in ottawa

I’m just chuckling at the disparaging remark about the RA Gun Club – that it’s “dictatorial”. You betcha. Imagine like, 60 people who want to shoot off a coupla dozen rounds over a 2 hour period between dinner and bedtime. It gets intense - it better be dictatorial. It’s that or casualties. Want to go home alive, or let strangers free-lance with guns??

The line is run with precision, and aligns completely with CFO regs. It offers SAFE shooting for novices as well as hardened addicts. And the Monday night post-shootin beer fest is always something to remember (or forget).

In fairness, for the hard-core Ottawa shooter, you need to belong to BOTH the RA club (for convenient and Winter shooting) AND EOHC (for non-Winter and all-day shooting expeditions).

With regards to cost - face it – gun play is an expensive indulgence. It will cost you $500/yr for club memberships, $2k per brand-name gun, plus $4k per year minimum for ammo.

Or you could play golf or lacrosse or something.


i don't think that a hard-core shooter should really go to RA. other than location and being indoors, it has few redeeming qualities. membership fees are horrid, buncha doors & hallways limit what you'd bring with you, and there's only one 25y range with maybe 10 positions?

if you're hard-core and compete, it would make sense to be at Connaught / NCRRA (6 pistol ranges [25y & 50y] with 14+ positions per range, lower membership fees, federal LTATT) and probably EOHC (good rates, enough space, very flexible shooting times). i live 5mins from the RA and i'd rather drive to Connaught. and if you really are a hard-core shooter, snow shouldn't bother you so no need for an indoor range in the winter. indoor would only be a real plus if you could shoot 24/7, as in 3am on a sunday or tuesday.

your prices are out of whack. $500 for membership if you join two and that's TOTAL, and max (if you make reasonable choices). brand name gun for $2k? LOTS of brand name guns for $600+ are available - and you did say PER gun. do you buy your guns from the RA centre itself at inflated prices??? i'd say even your ammo price is off by a fair bit if you're talking MINIMUM. using 9mm, 200 rounds per week every week is around $2k. the 22LR will be maybe another $500.

either you're oblivious to the other choices around, or you enjoy paying too much to have elite status, or you're trying to scare newbies with the massive costs involved. it's really not THAT expensive of a sport / activity to get into.
 
Meh. A hardcore Canadian shooter wouldn't care how cold it is.

Then I assume we"ll see you at our EOHC Winter Milshoot in January. ;) I shoot year-round, and after a while you just harden up and get used to it.

I am a member of both EOHC and NCRRA (at Connaught). The costs are way, way below those suggested. If you "need" the most expensive "brand name" (?) stuff, and don't reload, etc., you sure could spend a bunch, but I and most others sure don't.
 
what / when do you shoot at Connaught??? i'm there most Sat & Sun (well, just started the Sun stuff, but been doing Sat since March)
 
Then I assume we"ll see you at our EOHC Winter Milshoot in January. ;) I shoot year-round, and after a while you just harden up and get used to it.

I am a member of both EOHC and NCRRA (at Connaught). The costs are way, way below those suggested. If you "need" the most expensive "brand name" (?) stuff, and don't reload, etc., you sure could spend a bunch, but I and most others sure don't.


I'll be there so long as I'm not stuck reffing a jr game somewhere between kingston and hawkesburry :p
 
Then I assume we"ll see you at our EOHC Winter Milshoot in January. ;) I shoot year-round, and after a while you just harden up and get used to it.

I am a member of both EOHC and NCRRA (at Connaught). The costs are way, way below those suggested. If you "need" the most expensive "brand name" (?) stuff, and don't reload, etc., you sure could spend a bunch, but I and most others sure don't.

I've recently joined the EOHC, and look forward to year-round shooting :D
 
I've recently joined the EOHC, and look forward to year-round shooting :D

i've yet to join. i emailed them about joining in Sept so that my fees cover me for the rest of this year and next year - max bang for my buck! i hope to hell that they actually email me with the schedule of the safety course since it's not that far away.... anyone know whom i could email DIRECTLY to make sure?
 
join@eoch.com is the easiest way to do it. They get swamped by emails, but monitor the inbox on a regular basis and will reply in due time. The roster can sometimes take a while to fill up before they can offer the safety course, but they will definitely get in touch with you.
 
ok, did that a month ago, i hope they keep track of who wants to join and when... perhaps a reminder / refresh is in order, juuust in case. how long did it take you from when you indicated that you want to join, until you were actually there? if the recent interest with NCRRA / Connaught is any indication, things should be picking up.
 
Welcome to CGN. I think BP7 covered pretty much everything.

RA center
+ Lots of guns on sight to choose what you want to shoot that day
+ no pal required
+ indoors

- Tight shooting schedule (slow fire days, rifle only, pistol only etc...)
- Extremly tight club rules, but very good for learning good safety practices
- no center fire rifles, and some calibre restrictions on handguns
- indoors

EOHC
+ Go anytime between dawn to dusk, 365 days a year
+ multiple ranges
+ You can often go and just be the only ones there.
+ No calibre restrictions
+ outdoors that also has covered shooting areas

- Not in the city
- No club guns, so its harder to try something out, unless you meet somone with that particular firearms
- winter is cold

Either way both clubs are very good. I can't comment about stittsville or Connaught, as I've only been to stittsville once as a guest, and I've never been to Connaught.

For purchasing, take a look at sports action and EM Precision, and out wonderful sponsors at the top of the page (spent many hours looking at stuff there) Also Jason at Gunco on Clyde is excellent for any work you want done on your firearms.

Bandits I'm also going to Carleton right now. FYI we just started up a firearms club there and have already had a couple trips out to the range. You should come join us :D

A firearms club at Carleton?! Thats awesome! How do you join?
 
RA Gun Club

Well, lets just stick to the facts, rather than bizarre notions of my motives.

The RA offers a convenient and safe environment for shooters at all levels, as well as an armory that includes a wide variety of handgun types, available to all.

For those with demanding careers and family commitments it's a pretty convenient location and an easy process, as opposed to EOHC, which is at least an hour round-trip, and confined to daylight hours. (Great for weekend shooting though).

RA Membership includes a wide range of ages, ethnicities and professions. People bring their kids, wives and mothers to shoot there.

The RA is particularly convenient for winter shooting. Outdoor target shooting in winter is over-rated. The novelty wears off pretty fast, and then you're spending time trying to be warm, rather than actually shooting.

Regarding costs, RA fees are similar to EOHC, about $250/yr, I believe (... and frankley, who cares. We would pay hundreds more in any case, since club membership is a requirement to shoot handguns).

As for $600 firearms; sure you could that. You could drive a 1983 Pinto, or marry an ugly woman, or work for minimum wage. But who would want to settle for that?

Two grand for a gun is average. A mid-range 1911 is $1500 to $1800, and by the time its fit to your hand and shooting style, and the kinks are worked out, another $1000 can get spent real quick. I have Nill grips on a revolver that cost $200 alone. Its worth it to me, so that I can shoot the gun in comfort for the next 20 years.

As for ammo, 45 caliber is getting near to a buck a shot, retail, and 9mm about 40 cents. I must have 3 or 4 thousand dollars worth on hand at any time, of varying calibers, bought when available and priced right. Most folks I know buy them a few thousand rounds at a time to keep the cost down and the convenience up.

So, all in all, suggesting that shooting is not a ridiculously expensive past-time and that the RA Gun Club is a sub-standard range is just foolishness.

I think its rather sad to settle for driving an hour to shoot a Chinese knock-off in the cold a few times a month. Most folks I know have a much, much better time of it, because, like me, they shoot the guns they love once or twice a week amongst friends and colleagues whose company they enjoy, in a safe and convenient environment. The RA Gun Club allows us to do this in a way no other club in the region can.



i don't think that a hard-core shooter should really go to RA. other than location and being indoors, it has few redeeming qualities. membership fees are horrid, buncha doors & hallways limit what you'd bring with you, and there's only one 25y range with maybe 10 positions?

if you're hard-core and compete, it would make sense to be at Connaught / NCRRA (6 pistol ranges [25y & 50y] with 14+ positions per range, lower membership fees, federal LTATT) and probably EOHC (good rates, enough space, very flexible shooting times). i live 5mins from the RA and i'd rather drive to Connaught. and if you really are a hard-core shooter, snow shouldn't bother you so no need for an indoor range in the winter. indoor would only be a real plus if you could shoot 24/7, as in 3am on a sunday or tuesday.

your prices are out of whack. $500 for membership if you join two and that's TOTAL, and max (if you make reasonable choices). brand name gun for $2k? LOTS of brand name guns for $600+ are available - and you did say PER gun. do you buy your guns from the RA centre itself at inflated prices??? i'd say even your ammo price is off by a fair bit if you're talking MINIMUM. using 9mm, 200 rounds per week every week is around $2k. the 22LR will be maybe another $500.

either you're oblivious to the other choices around, or you enjoy paying too much to have elite status, or you're trying to scare newbies with the massive costs involved. it's really not THAT expensive of a sport / activity to get into.
 
here's some FACTS:


sub-$1k guns that work without needing an additional $1k of tweaks:

STI spartan, 9 or 45
Glock, any
S&W 686, MP
Beretta 9x, 90-two
Ruger hawks, GP


just a hair over $1k

STI trojan, ranger
SIG
S&W 1911
etc


i'm hoping few people are crazy enough to buy 45ACP or 45LC ammo RETAIL. those who love to shoot rather than brag would be well-advised to look at commercial reloads at under $0.40 per round in 45 and under $0.25 per round in 9.


a beginner / casual shooter need not be told that a car costs $70k cuz that's what a BMW or M-B costs, or that housing runs $700k cuz that's how much a 5,500 sq ft home costs

suggesting that a decent / average gun costs $2k and ammo costs $5k per year IS foolishness. your "standards" are along the lines of caviar for breakfast, champagne as a thirst-quencher, and silk toilet paper.

i honestly haven't heard a significant GOOD thing about the RA centre from anyone, and those who do tell me about the RA centre describe the patrons & club environment as somewhat elitist, snobbish, and dictatorial - like a bunch of old fogeys sitting around a fire in wingback leather chairs smoking cigars and belittling others.

to the OP: hook up with people and go as a guest to the various ranges, and see what each one is like. you might like different parts from the various clubs, and decide to make the most of it and join two (or see enough merit in one and join it)
 
Two grand for a gun is average. A mid-range 1911 is $1500 to $1800, and by the time its fit to your hand and shooting style, and the kinks are worked out, another $1000 can get spent real quick. I have Nill grips on a revolver that cost $200 alone. Its worth it to me, so that I can shoot the gun in comfort for the next 20 years.

As for ammo, 45 caliber is getting near to a buck a shot, retail, and 9mm about 40 cents. I must have 3 or 4 thousand dollars worth on hand at any time, of varying calibers, bought when available and priced right. Most folks I know buy them a few thousand rounds at a time to keep the cost down and the convenience up.

:eek:

If I was a n00b just getting into shooting and this is the advice I got I might have quickly sh!t myself and turned around and kept walking. That is not how you try to get new blood into the sport, which is what is going to keep it alive. That kind of elitism seems to be what has hit europe in reguards to the shooting sports and a gentlemens/upper-class sport when it shouldn't, and be made more availible to the average person and even the poor struggling student (me :p )

So far I bought a gorgeous ruger mk3 22/45 off E&E for 240, and I'm currently looking at getting a CZ-75 which definatly wont be somewhere in the $1500s. If you have that kind of money to throw around, and to shoot a .45 a couple times a week with factory loads all the power to you. But right now thats not for me. And when I start shooting centerfire I would probably buy factory reloads, or start looking into reloading my own.

Don't get my wrong, in no way shape or form did I say I thought it was sub-standard. In fact I really did enjoy my time there and its an awsome facility albiet small. And it was litterally a 2 min car trip. But I also love being outside, plinking away with my SKS, or my friend's VTR-597 and AR-15 as well as handguns on what ever day or time I want.


But who would want to settle for that??
I would :stirthepot2:


Almost forgot, rommel check out our facebook group. I think we've had 3 or 4 range trips now out to stittsville. Hopefully we'll be doing the same again before winter. I'm not sure whether or not the club is registered with CUSA right now or not, but either way its a great way to meet other students who are interested in firearms. And if all else fails I'll get a bunch of us into a car and we'll go anyways.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=177008221730&ref=ts
 
Cripes! Did I just walk into a lesson in personal finance? Are we actually arguing about which gun is better than the other? C'mon! Who cares what we're shooting? Join a club, shoot, have fun, repeat. Get over yourself Mr Jones.
 
RA Gun Club

Oh, you're an angry one, aren't you...

Lets look at your list of firearms.

I notice that you conveniently avoid calculating taxes and shipping. Furthermore, all 1911s need tuning out of the box. Beretta's are a duty pistol and no good for target shooting (because of the trigger). The Glocks I will give you, because there is nothing that can be done to Tupperware to improve it, but even so, extra mags and the holster get you close to my figure. Revolvers need grips/ holster/moonclips. Sigs cost $2k with mags, even before the short trigger and new grips.

Problem, it would appear, is that you have gone window shopping and seen the posted prices, but never actually experienced cost-of-ownership.

The rant about bimmers and $700k homes is a bit left-field, but exposes what is probably the basis of your anger - want em, don't have em. Me neither... poor us.

As for my standards, I like your ideas to improve them - "caviar for breakfast" and "champagne as a thirst-quencher". Sounds delicious. The "silk toilet paper" is just dumb though.

Actually, you HAVE "heard a significant GOOD thing about the RA centre" - not only from me, but from others on this thread. Didn't get 'round to actually reading them, I guess.

Regarding your notion that "patrons & club environment [are] somewhat elitist, snobbish, and dictatorial - like a bunch of old fogeys sitting around a fire in wingback leather chairs smoking cigars". Sounds awfully good. I can only dream though. The chairs are actually torturous, and the bastards won't let us smoke cigars.

As for "belittling others" - we certainly belittle each other - savagely, often, and to great amusement.

Bottom line - anyone willing to follow the CFO's rules is welcome to come shoot at the RA as my guest, even you. Just PM me.

here's some FACTS:


sub-$1k guns that work without needing an additional $1k of tweaks:

STI spartan, 9 or 45
Glock, any
S&W 686, MP
Beretta 9x, 90-two
Ruger hawks, GP


just a hair over $1k

STI trojan, ranger
SIG
S&W 1911
etc


i'm hoping few people are crazy enough to buy 45ACP or 45LC ammo RETAIL. those who love to shoot rather than brag would be well-advised to look at commercial reloads at under $0.40 per round in 45 and under $0.25 per round in 9.


a beginner / casual shooter need not be told that a car costs $70k cuz that's what a BMW or M-B costs, or that housing runs $700k cuz that's how much a 5,500 sq ft home costs

suggesting that a decent / average gun costs $2k and ammo costs $5k per year IS foolishness. your "standards" are along the lines of caviar for breakfast, champagne as a thirst-quencher, and silk toilet paper.

i honestly haven't heard a significant GOOD thing about the RA centre from anyone, and those who do tell me about the RA centre describe the patrons & club environment as somewhat elitist, snobbish, and dictatorial - like a bunch of old fogeys sitting around a fire in wingback leather chairs smoking cigars and belittling others.

to the OP: hook up with people and go as a guest to the various ranges, and see what each one is like. you might like different parts from the various clubs, and decide to make the most of it and join two (or see enough merit in one and join it)
 
Oh, you're an angry one, aren't you...

Lets look at your list of firearms.

I notice that you conveniently avoid calculating taxes and shipping. Furthermore, all 1911s need tuning out of the box. Beretta's are a duty pistol and no good for target shooting (because of the trigger). The Glocks I will give you, because there is nothing that can be done to Tupperware to improve it, but even so, extra mags and the holster get you close to my figure. Revolvers need grips/ holster/moonclips. Sigs cost $2k with mags, even before the short trigger and new grips.

taxes are always on everything, but they CERTAINLY don't make a $600 firearm into a $2000 firearm (at least not yet, give the feds SOME time to ratchet up the rates).

all 1911 pistols needing tuning out of the box - that's a whole other kettle of fish. a GOOD new gun shouldn't need modifications before the first round is fired. i'd HATE to buy a brand new Lexus and have to rebuild the engine before taking delivery... but i guess you're OK with that cuz it's a freakin' Lexus.

duty pistol or not, a target is at object that is shot at. it need not be a tiny X on a piece of paper marked "bullseye". it can be an IDPA cardboard, or a Tim Horton's coffee cup, or a watermelon. ALL firearms are essentially target guns, cuz they are used to shoot at a target of some kind (flesh-n-bone or pulp paper - the exact PERMITTED nature varies by country and whether you choose to obey the laws or not). they're GENERALLY not used to make toast or sweep floors.

one glock with 7 mags plus holsters = under $1k, i can guarantee that (cuz i own it)

btw, my revolver came with a grip. where do you shop that parts are missing from your guns???

new shooters (or function-before-form shooters) need not replace parts before loading their first round, be it grips, sights, or springs. the only exception is a Norc 1911 which is absolutely SWIMMING in oil.

do the new shooters a favour and don't snob up the sport. the price of entry is FAR from your quoted figures - i'd say easily HALF, if not ONE QUARTER. i'd hate to be best friends with the newbie who followed your advice, bought a $2000 Les Baer 1911 and $5k worth of RETAIL .45ACP ammo, and then realized that really he'd rather shoot IPSC or Cowboy. damn, what an expensive lesson, Mr.Jones. if it were not for the laws, i wouldn't hold him back from feeding $4999.50 worth of that ammo through that $2k LB 1911 and into your nuts.

heck, for $500-$600 a new shooter can pick up a good new 22LR pistol and a few bricks of ammo, and have at it for a good month.

btw - the CFO does NOT regulate the flow of a shooting day at the range. they do NOT regulate that each shooter shall take X shots, N times, and then score-n-patch. i hope you're not confusing the CFO with an RSO.
 
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