Newbie question .303 sporter modification

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One4adventure

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New here thanks in advance for your patience.
I recently completed my hunting and firearms safety course and am waiting patiently for my PAL to arrive.
Planning for the fall hunt I am hoping to get a sporterized No4 rifle, wondering what others have done with these. Seems since the barrels are typically cut short, I was wondering about putting the front sight from a No5? Looks like the barrel would be cut back further and a couple dowel pins to be drilled. I have a milling machine and and totally comfortable with the nuts and bolts.
I’m not concerned with originality, moreover are there any issues to be concerned with?
Basically I’d have a shorter and handier rifle perfect for the up close hunting typical for my area, and it would have the no5 look I’d prefer over the sporterized look.
The front sight is available, and there are always No4 sporters up for sale.
Tips or concerns?
Thanks
 
I've owned several Parker-Hale's built on #4 actions. The one's I owned were all the Super Supreme models with new barrels, sights and Monte Carlo stocks with rosewood accents. All were decent shooters and would serve you well as a hunting rifle. These rifles need nothing done to them as the're drilled and tapped for scope mounting. The P-H bases & rings are available but sometimes hard to find.
 
One4adventure said:
New here thanks in advance for your patience.
I recently completed my hunting and firearms safety course and am waiting patiently for my PAL to arrive.
Planning for the fall hunt I am hoping to get a sporterized No4 rifle, wondering what others have done with these. Seems since the barrels are typically cut short, I was wondering about putting the front sight from a No5? Looks like the barrel would be cut back further and a couple dowel pins to be drilled. I have a milling machine and and totally comfortable with the nuts and bolts.
I’m not concerned with originality, moreover are there any issues to be concerned with?
Basically I’d have a shorter and handier rifle perfect for the up close hunting typical for my area, and it would have the no5 look I’d prefer over the sporterized look.
The front sight is available, and there are always No4 sporters up for sale.
Tips or concerns?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Honestly, it’s not a very sound idea. You can buy a brand new rifle for $500-$600, and it will be superior to the old Enfield in almost every way. They have their charm, but crummy sporters are climbing in cost (though I don’t feel that equates to value) and .303 British has become very expensive and hard to find. Not to mention that Enfields are hopelessly obsolete. Now don’t get me wrong, i think that they are wonderful rifles, but I think it is absolutely the wrong path for a first rifle. Buy a quality used, but modern, rifle and put it to good use. There are plenty of solid old hunting rifles that can be had for less than $500, and they will dramatically outperform any sporterized Lee Enfield.
 
Well - I think you should go for a Lee Enfield. Whats not to like? Removable mag, iron (peep) sights, slick action, and can be had with scope mounts. I personally like the factory sporters, if you look around you can still get them for a decent price. BTW - There have been a few sported No5's on the EE recently.
 
Are you considering installation of a genuine muzzle unit or a reproduction?
Generally speaking, to install a No. 5 unit on a shortened No. 4 barrel, either the muzzle unit would have to be bored out to fit the barrel, or the barrel would have to be turned down to fit the unit.
Installing the cross pins can be interesting.
 
Why bother using your skills to breath new life into a sporter rifle with Canadian connections when you can buy mass produced plastic for the same cost and have the same rifle as everyone else.


Obviously I’m being sarcastic, don’t chop up any original guns for parts, but if your building off a sporter, go nuts, you can make a fine rifle suited to your purpose.
 
I love the different perspectives, to be honest I’m a bit nostalgic about the .303.
I have enough friends who shoot them to say ammunition won’t be an issue. A few shots a year for sighting in and taking a deer or a moose. Are there any issues with the modification I proposed? I’m looking to confirm it’s safe and legal firstly. Second how much accuracy if any do I sacrifice in the under 400 meter range? Honestly don’t see beyond 50 meters in my heavily forested area…
 
Aftermarket, looks to be bored for No4 barrel already. I’m a toolmaker by trade, I’m up for the dowel hole challenge, have a knee mill in my shop…
 
One4adventure said:
I love the different perspectives, to be honest I’m a bit nostalgic about the .303.
I have enough friends who shoot them to say ammunition won’t be an issue. A few shots a year for sighting in and taking a deer or a moose. Are there any issues with the modification I proposed? I’m looking to confirm it’s safe and legal firstly. Second how much accuracy if any do I sacrifice in the under 400 meter range? Honestly don’t see beyond 50 meters in my heavily forested area…
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Are you really thinking that you need only a few shots a year and will take your deer or moose? Maybe you can - I could not. I probably need at least 200 centre fire rounds fired over the summer to feel that I am "competent" with my hunting rifle, since I only get to go hunting for a few days in the fall - I am not like some that pack a rifle most all year when they are in the bush. By "competent", I mean to do a standing off-hand kill shot into a deer's chest at 100 yards or so.

If you intend to use your Lee Enfield as a "detachable magazine" (was not designed for that) - then read up on tuning those feed lips - they get flattened out often when slamming that magazine in - a Lee Enfield should feed so slick, you almost have to open the bolt to make sure a shell actually went in the chamber - certainly, the No. 1's would do that. A great deal of that is within the alignment and setting of those feed lips in the magazine.
 
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gallen270 said:
Why bother using your skills to breath new life into a sporter rifle with Canadian connections when you can buy mass produced plastic for the same cost and have the same rifle as everyone else.


Obviously I’m being sarcastic, don’t chop up any original guns for parts, but if your building off a sporter, go nuts, you can make a fine rifle suited to your purpose.
Click to expand...

Is odd - the Long Branch and Savage No. 4's were almost all the Mk1* version - very susceptible to the bolt head dismount slot chipping or wearing away - bolt head "pops out" with wear - why the British never did adopt the Mk.1* adaptation - they stayed with the Mk. 1
 
OP, there is a lot of enthusiasm for your project here.

Pros - The 303 Brit is pretty much the equivalent of the 308 Win loaded to moderate specs.
- the tech is old but it's still good and very reliable.

Cons - Unless you plan on using a No5 front sight unit that has had the bayo lug cut off, it's going to be very pricey. They easily sell for $150+ at gun shows if they still have the bayonet lug intact. Without the lug $25.

I have done this sort of thing before, recently with a 45acp conversion.

I opened up the sight body bore to fit snugly on the barrel. It's easy to get square, if the rear bridge is still on the rifle.

Simply slightly press on the front sight and adjust until it is square with the rear sight bridge.

You can check square by turning it upsided down on a flat surface and making the proper adjustments until it no longer rocks.

once you've got it where you want it, just drill the holes for the retaining pins out and tap in the pins.

Another way is to open the bore a few thou large, put in some epoxy or LocTite and follow the squaring up procedure above.

Leave it sit in that position until the epoxy cures, then drill out the retaining pin holes.

I've seen a couple of after market No5 sights and was very disappointed. One was plastic, meant to be used as a bayonet display mount and the other was made of pot metal.
 
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Great information here thank you , how do you recrown the end of the barrel? Or is this not required as it’s no hidden by flash hider?
bearhunter said:
OP, there is a lot of enthusiasm for your project here.

Pros - The 303 Brit is pretty much the equivalent of the 308 Win loaded to moderate specs.
- the tech is old but it's still good and very reliable.

Cons - Unless you plan on using a No5 front sight unit that has had the bayo lug cut off, it's going to be very pricey. They easily sell for $150+ at gun shows if they still have the bayonet lug intact. Without the lug $25.

I have done this sort of thing before, recently with a 45acp conversion.

I opened up the sight body bore to fit snugly on the barrel. It's easy to get square, if the rear bridge is still on the rifle.

Simply slightly press on the front sight and adjust until it is square with the rear sight bridge.

You can check square by turning it upsided down on a flat surface and making the proper adjustments until it no longer rocks.

once you've got it where you want it, just drill the holes for the retaining pins out and tap in the pins.

Another way is to open the bore a few thou large, put in some epoxy or LocTite and follow the squaring up procedure above.

Leave it sit in that position until the epoxy cures, then drill out the retaining pin holes.

I've seen a couple of after market No5 sights and was very disappointed. One was plastic, meant to be used as a bayonet display mount and the other was made of pot metal.
Click to expand...
 
I admire your enthusiasm! But ... in my hunting experience I prefer to spend time on range time, physical fitness preparations, and scouting than on fixing my guns.

The comment about buying new gear is not to be dismissed outright. I know two guys who bought matching Savage .300 Win Mag package guns (scope, rings, sling, case, rifle) in the spring. They trained through the summer. One guy dropped a Saskatchewan record book muley buck, and the other's buck just missed the cutoff score. At the time I was shooting a heavily modified M1917 with a Pattern 1914 bolt in a plastic stock, sold by the old Century Arms as a Centurion. I sold that gun and now have one of the Savages. Much more repeatable accuracy than the old Centurion.

Potashminer and Tiriaq have many hunting seasons of hope and disappointment behind them! I know both well enough to say, listen to them too. In the words of a remarkable YT gunsmith Mark Novak "Anvil", amateurs trade their time to save materials - professionals trade materials for their time.
 
OP - I have a similar project waiting for some bits to arrive. I have a No. 4 Maltby action Mk 1/2 - so, was a No.4 Mk.1, originally, now with the trigger hung off the block on the wrist, not off the trigger guard. Is already drilled and tapped for Parker Hale A20 front base and I have the A20 and partner A21 PH base. And both RAHS.3 and RALS.3 rings. And what might be a Parker Hale butt stock with the Monte Carlo comb, but no check piece. It's purpose is a "get-me-home" rifle - when I get my side-by-side stuck or it breaks down in the Manitoba bush here. So, not likely a rifle that I would chose to go hunting with - purely a defensive piece - say 30 or 40 feet and closer. Is multiple Momma bears with cubs around here. A nearby acquaintance takes about 30 wolves per year with traps and rifle. That is the bush that I will walk home through, if I need to. So, not a hunting rifle - I chose a battle rifle for a few reasons. With the mounted scope, likely a 2 1/2 power - I can not use the chargers like I originally intended - so I will have to use the magazine as if it were a "detachable" one - many thousands of people do so, I think.

Accuracy for my purpose is not a real concern - to be able to hit a soft ball at 50 yards would be more than fine. But, the butt fits properly within its socket, and the forearm will be snug on the draws - the way I believe a No. 4 should be.

Apparently a selection of bolt heads are on the way with a replacement, cut down barrel - There will be no front or rear sight on the barrel - the idea is to get a bolt head that clocks on this bolt body to spec - and hopefully enough choices for both clocking and head space. Brass will be fire formed, or re-sized, so that in this rifle, it will headspace on the shoulder, not on the rim - is not "normal" for 303 British, but I might get "lucky enough" to get both. I intend to load 174 grain Woodleigh Weldcore PP Soft Nose - in my lifetime, I doubt I will ever have to fire it "for real" - but it will be ready, if I have to.

I could avoid all that commotion and angst, and just take my Ruger Compact rifle. But no fun in that!!!
 
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One4adventure said:
Great information here thank you , how do you recrown the end of the barrel? Or is this not required as it’s no hidden by flash hider?
Click to expand...

You can do it with a recrowning tool, available from Brownelle's or take it to a machinist/smith/friend with a lathe, to true the muzzle.

Yes, it should be properly crowned, after shortening.
 
Don’t be dissuaded about an sported no.1 or no.4 as your first hunting rifle, I’d be more concerned with finding one that is in good accurate shooting condition than using one in general. Be it stock, headspace issues or even a worn out barrel it can add up to a lot of headaches when trying to get it shooting well. There’s enough commercial ammo for hunting if you don’t reload already but it’s getting more expensive by the year, reloading will be the best way to shoot more and load for hunting. You’ll learn the nuances of the old tank and become a more confident shooter/hunter with it the more you spend time shooting it and being comfortable with it.

My first hunting rifle was a LB sporter no.4 I bought for $80, I got lucky as it shoots pretty nicely with both S&B and Federal ammo. 1”-1.25” five shot groups at 100y if I do my part, this is with a scope mounted to an Adley no smith rail. I hunted with it for the first four years and took 7-8 deer with it, I love the rifle and have spent enough time with it that it’s like second nature shooting it or even holding it. I know exactly how the trigger breaks and the feel of the safety as it goes on or off, it’s a piece of Canadiana as far as I’m concerned and will kill pretty much anything in Canada you’re likely to hunt.

That being said, I have upgraded to a more modern couple of rifles. They are lighter, shorter and easier to find and buy ammo for. I do miss hunting with the no.4 but with a full magazine and the scope it’s over 10lbs, not exactly light while your hiking around or carrying it all day.
 
oldrodder said:
I've owned several Parker-Hale's built on #4 actions. The one's I owned were all the Super Supreme models with new barrels, sights and Monte Carlo stocks with rosewood accents. All were decent shooters and would serve you well as a hunting rifle. These rifles need nothing done to them as the're drilled and tapped for scope mounting. The P-H bases & rings are available but sometimes hard to find.
Click to expand...

OP, listen to this guy. I bought a brand new Parker Hale Supreme from the Rod & Gun club at 4Wing in 73 and it was a very accurate rifle. I got a nice bull moose on my first moose hunt with it and couldn’t be happier with it. The hunting group I was with pretty well guaranteed one of us would bag a bull and I just happened to be in the best spot.

What I’m saying is the LE Sporter with a scope is a decent hunting rifle for any big game in Canada. Pick one up, get it sighted in, get familiar with it and go hunting.
 
Study all of the Parker Hale Sporter info you can find. Learn how to identify them well. Then watch shops and the EE for .303 "cut down' "Sporter" etc and you will see the well done Parker Hales mistaken for Bubba guns for a song. Great hunting rifle and grand old cartridge. What's not to like?

Darryl
 
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