Ok, I dont know much about reloading and had a theory I'd like to discuss. A friend of mine has 2 mosin nagants, a 91/30 with 29" barrel and a K44 with 20.2" barrel. The 91/30 has no muzzle flash while the K44 is a flame thrower. Obviously due to barrel length, but it also loses about 1000 fps MV. So the powder charge isnt completely burning in the shorter barrel? Causing it to continue burning into the atmosphere, creating the muzzle flash and not exerting full energy on the bullit, right? Then would it be possible, in theory, to use a faster burning powder that would burn more completely in the shorter barrel and possibly build more MV before the bullet leaves the barrel? I ask as a theory, not including other factors like action, chamber, barrel and case strength, but am I on the right track? Any positive input would be greatly appreciated. BTW, we're shooting milsurp ammo, But he has a press and 7.62x54r dies.
newbie question about 7.62x54r
- Thread starter supernova
- Start date
Muzzle flash, yes, because of unburnt powder. You should say what type of ammo you are using, otherwise commenting on your results is fruitless.
1,000 fps difference, doesn't sound right, considering the typical 147 gr bullet has a muzzle velocity in the 2,800 to 3,000 fps range in a standard 24" barrel. Difference should be 250 to 300 fps.
Check your ammo against the tests done here for various ammo and rifle combinations. (near bottom of page, click "DATA" link for detailed test results)
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo.htm
1,000 fps difference, doesn't sound right, considering the typical 147 gr bullet has a muzzle velocity in the 2,800 to 3,000 fps range in a standard 24" barrel. Difference should be 250 to 300 fps.
Check your ammo against the tests done here for various ammo and rifle combinations. (near bottom of page, click "DATA" link for detailed test results)
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo.htm
Wow, I didnt realize there are so many different milsurp loads. My apolagies, I'll have to check exactly what ammo he has. For now I'm just looking into the theory of a more completely burned powder charge. A muzzle flash is distracting and seems a bit wasteful. I got the MV's off wikipedia, should have done more research lol. I'd just like to know if a load could be produced that burns completely in the shorter barrel but doesnt sacrifice velocity too much, if at all. Though this would bring up issues with gun and casing strength right?
The muzzle flash shouldn't be that huge out of the shorter barrel. My guess is that there is something wrong with the powder in those milsurp rounds, or it was a very poor load/choice of powder, and probably why the ammo is milsurp.
You can get a large muzzle flash but that means the cartridge/bullet/powder choice is very poor, unburnt powder is wasted powder. Muzzle flash is much more pronounced with MUCH larger, overbore (large capacity relative to bullet diameter) cartridges. The 7.62x54R is not an overbore cartridge.
You can get a large muzzle flash but that means the cartridge/bullet/powder choice is very poor, unburnt powder is wasted powder. Muzzle flash is much more pronounced with MUCH larger, overbore (large capacity relative to bullet diameter) cartridges. The 7.62x54R is not an overbore cartridge.
- Location
- Georgetown Ontario
The Mosin 44's are known flame throwers. I have just started reloading this round for mine so I have no info for reducing the flame. It's worth investigating with different powders you should be able to reduce the flame and blast a bit.
- Location
- Georgetown Ontario
I'm thinking light x39 bullets and faster burning powder maybe. Right now I only have one load to try this spring. it's 123gr Winchester PP bullet, 44 to 48gr's of IMR4895, Winchester LR primer, Bell case, 2.770 OAL. My powder choice is low right now I need to stock up with some more powders to experiment some this summer. I'll let you know if I hit on a good load. I'm hoping to find a load that is a good deer load without the flashbang.
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
It's a very unusual rifle round that doesn't fully burn its powder in the first 10-12" of bullet travel.
Note that muzzle flash does not necessarily indicate unburnt powder. Most powders are "rich" in their chemistry, i.e. they are oxygen-poor, so the gas that is generated has some hydrogen and carbon monoxide. When this hot gas mixes with atmospheric oxygen at the muzzle, it can produce a flash as it gets to (finally!) finish its combustion.
Most powders have small amounts of chemicals added to them to act as flash suppressants, to reduce this (various chemical tricks can raise the ignition temperature needed, and minimize or even avoid a flash happening).
Longer barrels expand the gun gas a bit more, and this expansion cools the gas - this can delay the ignition of the gas at the muzzle, making the flash smaller.
Note that muzzle flash does not necessarily indicate unburnt powder. Most powders are "rich" in their chemistry, i.e. they are oxygen-poor, so the gas that is generated has some hydrogen and carbon monoxide. When this hot gas mixes with atmospheric oxygen at the muzzle, it can produce a flash as it gets to (finally!) finish its combustion.
Most powders have small amounts of chemicals added to them to act as flash suppressants, to reduce this (various chemical tricks can raise the ignition temperature needed, and minimize or even avoid a flash happening).
Longer barrels expand the gun gas a bit more, and this expansion cools the gas - this can delay the ignition of the gas at the muzzle, making the flash smaller.
When I get QuickLoad back up and running (computer crapped out and haven't reinstalled it yet), it calculates the amount of unburnt powder with combinations of powder/charge weight/bullet/barrel length, and is a very good place to start for figuring out what might be good combinations.
We also have a M44, but never really noticed much muzzle flash, but then we shoot outdoors, not under cover, and usually only on nice sunny days.....
