Newbie question about drop at comb.

SuperCub

SuperCub

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Good afternoon folks ..... A question here about proper drop at comb for a skeet / 5 stand gun.

I have an old 12ga 30" Invector Citori here that I have been using for the last 10yrs for 5 stand shooting on and off, more off than on. Until this summer I hadn't shot it for the last 2 or 3 years so that indicates how much I shoot this game with it. This past while after retiring, I found myself doing some more shooting this past year and wanted to get a bit better at 5 stand / skeet. I have a larger head with high prominent cheek bones and there have been shotguns in the past that were too high on the comb and had to go. They would not allow me to get my head down on the comb with a proper sight picture of the rib and would beat my face up. The Citori always fit well with no issue until yesterday. Recently the doctor gave me orders to lose some weight to get my blood pressure down. I'm down about 15lbs so far. My face is a fair bit thinner. Yesterday at the skeet range I could only shoot two rounds of skeet with this gun as it was now pounding my cheek bone and I could not hit a skeet to save my life. I was never very good but I could hit a few. Yesterday, I was only hitting 7 or 8 per round. I went home with a pounding headache and a sore face. The face is still sore. This gun has never done this to me before. I tries a couple other guns at the range with the same result. One being an 870 of which I own one as well and have not had issue with. Both those other shotguns added to the sore face.

I'm thinking that now the comb on my Citori is now too low. The sight picture with head on the comb is lower. Now I'm seeing the rear of the receiver.

Please advise, discuss, ridicule my big head issues. :) :)
 
Have the same problem with some shotguns. Sharp rap in cheek bone gets tiresome. I fixed it on a couple guns by added 1/2 to 3/4 inch butt pad. Not for recoil just to put my cheek a little more rearward and lower on the comb. Have long arms and big giant melon too so a little longer length of pull is good. Might help a bit.
 
Mike Webb said:
Have the same problem with some shotguns. Sharp rap in cheek bone gets tiresome. I fixed it on a couple guns by added 1/2 to 3/4 inch butt pad. Not for recoil just to put my cheek a little more rearward and lower on the comb. Have long arms and big giant melon too so a little longer length of pull is good. Might help a bit.
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Thanks Mike ..... I recently joined the Skeet and Trap club in Penfield. There was a fellow there with a Browning 725 that I got to try out. It had a longer LOP than mine and I still got beat up with that one as well. At this point it's no use shooting more until I get this sorted out.

You suggestion might be worth a try with mine though.
 
Hard to diagnose over the internet. For years I shot a 870 pump at the trap range. It has a neutral cast. Shelved it when I got into decent O/U's that had a cast. Last summer, I brought the 870 to the range - could barely finish a round due to cheek slap. Needless to say, this induced a flinch which severely diminished my score.
I currently shoot a 686 Beretta with an adjustable comb. With some guidance from the cognoscenti at the club, I feel I've got the gun set up properly. In addition, I've learned to mount the gun first to my cheek, then shoulder. Also, over the years, I developed a tendency to hold the gun loosely, feeling it would offer a fluid swing. Unfortunately, it increased felt recoil. I've since corrected that, and noticed my scores/consistency have improved.
 
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Cheek slap is often caused by the pitch of the butt plate or recoil pad forcing the comb upwards into your cheek during recoil. Adding a washer under one screw to change the pitch, can really help in that regard. But if the issue is present with several shotguns, I would be looking at how you mount your gun. How hard or how loose your cheek is on the comb.
 
Beretta makes a gel tek cheek protector in 4mm and 6mm thickness, that may be the cheapest way to sort out your problem.
Ammo could also be a problem, I see lots of new shooters show up with 3 dram Handicap loads to shoot trap and skeet. Challenger light loads 1 oz can break any target on a sheet field or Sporting Clays course.
 
maynard said:
Beretta makes a gel tek cheek protector in 4mm and 6mm thickness, that may be the cheapest way to sort out your problem.
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Have you used these? I think that will be the route I go first, given the history with this shotgun fitting me in the past without issue. The only difference now is there is less fat on my face and the comb is now too low for me.

Not looking to buy another shotgun at this point.
 
stubblejumper said:
Cheek slap is often caused by the pitch of the butt plate or recoil pad forcing the comb upwards into your cheek during recoil. Adding a washer under one screw to change the pitch, can really help in that regard. But if the issue is present with several shotguns, I would be looking at how you mount your gun. How hard or how loose your cheek is on the comb.
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Would the pitch become an issue with weight lose?
 
SuperCub said:
Have you used these? I think that will be the route I go first, given the history with this shotgun fitting me in the past without issue. The only difference now is there is less fat on my face and the comb is now too low for me.

Not looking to buy another shotgun at this point.
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I tried that route many years ago with a fixed comb gun that was slapping my cheekbone and it helped immensely.

Usually the best way to fix this is with an adjustable comb. Flatten the comb out a bit so it’s closer to parallel with the bore of the gun and make sure the front of the comb is not further left than the rear of the comb if your right handed. When the gun recoils having the comb set that way will not direct recoil to your face.

Combs that have drop in them are highly misunderstood by most shooters and there is actually a very good reason for their being that dates back many years.
When you shoot at a target high above your head, your head doesn’t tilt back quite as far as the gun does and in doing so lowers your eye in relationship to the barrels or barrel however, the ramped or sloped comb raises your eye as your face slides ahead on the stock and in theory compensates for your head not tilting up as much as the gun. Conversely, when you shoot at a target below your feet, your head doesn’t tilt down as much as the gun does but your head slides back on the comb and lowers your eye to compensate. The downside of course is that if the gun doesn’t fit you perfectly then you get beat up.

Guns with parallel combs have been popular in trap for years but in that game your target is at the same height every time you shoot. A number of years ago manufacturers started putting parallel combs on sporting clays guns and the concept failed on account of the fact that sporting clays targets vary drastically in height and a mental effort would have to be made to compensate for high or low targets.
On most guns with an adjustable comb, a happy medium can usually be found with some slope on the comb that will compensate somewhat for varying height targets while still being comfortable to shoot. They can also be adjusted as the shooters gains or loses weight.
 
SuperCub said:
Would the pitch become an issue with weight lose?
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If the pitch was not correct in the first place, changing the comb height could make it more of a factor. And as has been mentioned, the comb angle can also be a factor. My sporting clays gun has the comb adjusted to be almost parallel, which I also prefer on my skeet guns. Anything that causes the comb to push into your cheek, rather than along it, can cause cheek slap.
 
SuperCub said:
Have you used these? I think that will be the route I go first, given the history with this shotgun fitting me in the past without issue. The only difference now is there is less fat on my face and the comb is now too low for me.

Not looking to buy another shotgun at this point.
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I have not used one myself but have seen a few others use them. I have seen lots of target rifle shooters that don't have adjustable cheek piece stocks tape a bar towel or thin piece of foam to their stocks.
 
I'm with Stubblejumper on this on. The pitch of the butt with regards to the sight plane has a major impact on recoil and forcing the gun upwards and not straight back. Could losing weight affect this, yes. The pitch is fit based on not only how thick your chest is, and its musculature, but also your mount. Do you stand straight up or get out over the gun? If you have lost weight especially in your chest area it could have impacted the pitch of your gun.

I could be wrong but based on your description i would put you in a relatively inexperienced shotgun shooting category. If there is someone at your club well versed in mounting a shotgun for skeet/5 stand (yes it is discipline and shotgun stock style specific) have them take a look at your mount and how the stock is interacting with you physically to see if they can improve things.

One of the most common mounting mistakes i see with inexperienced shooters is having a shotgun with sporting or hunting dimensions and standing straight up like they have a high rib & comb trap gun. If you are doing this and the butt pad is not 100% on your chest but a portion resides above your collar bone its a recipe for a cheek slap.

As for the adjustable cheek piece they do help eye alignment with the rib, but they wont help stop the gun recoiling upward into your cheek.
 
osborne said:
I'm with Stubblejumper on this on. The pitch of the butt with regards to the sight plane has a major impact on recoil and forcing the gun upwards and not straight back. Could losing weight affect this, yes. The pitch is fit based on not only how thick your chest is, and its musculature, but also your mount. Do you stand straight up or get out over the gun? If you have lost weight especially in your chest area it could have impacted the pitch of your gun.

I could be wrong but based on your description i would put you in a relatively inexperienced shotgun shooting category. If there is someone at your club well versed in mounting a shotgun for skeet/5 stand (yes it is discipline and shotgun stock style specific) have them take a look at your mount and how the stock is interacting with you physically to see if they can improve things.

One of the most common mounting mistakes i see with inexperienced shooters is having a shotgun with sporting or hunting dimensions and standing straight up like they have a high rib & comb trap gun. If you are doing this and the butt pad is not 100% on your chest but a portion resides above your collar bone its a recipe for a cheek slap.

As for the adjustable cheek piece they do help eye alignment with the rib, but they wont help stop the gun recoiling upward into your cheek.
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Not if you mount the gun high on your shoulder like you previously mentioned but they will if mounted properly and you set the comb parallel to the bore.
 
Buy a 28g or Briley 28g tubes for your O/U. That’s what many of our older shooters (myself included) go to after many years of 12g facial abuse. In the interim you can sand down or add to combs and use mild 1oz shells. That’s my opinion and my face seconds it.
 
Browning A-5.
A SuperDewperFuddlyCubb deserves a fuddly ker-pow.

And I do know where thar’s one with a factory modified choke.
 
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Mr Bill said:
Buy a 28g or Briley 28g tubes for your O/U. That’s what many of our older shooters (myself included) go to after many years of 12g facial abuse. In the interim you can sand down or add to combs and use mild 1oz shells. That’s my opinion and my face seconds it.
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I'm an older shooter Mr. Bill and I've been shooting thousands of 12 gauge shells per year for many years. I'm not saying that we're all the same or that you should even agree with me but I'd suggest that maybe you should have had your gun fitted to you earlier so you could enjoy many more years of pleasant shooting without your face having to back up your words!
 
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I have high cheek bones, orangutan length arms, broad shoulders. I found adding a stock drop spacer is almost always necessary (on shotguns) and puts my eye in natural alignment with point of aim. When I can’t do it because I can’t buy stock spacers for a particular shotgun, I use a recoil pad just as one gentleman also stated. So far this has solved this issue for me 100%.

Also: Congrats on the weight loss my friend.
 
Challenger also makes a "light load", same 1 oz payload but a little slower than 1300 fps. I think they are around 1200 fps, very soft shooting in both my 690 and A400. I don't shoot pre-mounted and the gun doesn't go to my shoulder until I call for and see the bird. For me it works because I can pick up the bird quicker and swing instinctively.
 
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