Newbie question but how you guys had flinch fixed your problems?

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covert_oops

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I am very sure I am flinching when I shoot the Glock17 but I have no such problem when shooting a 22lr Buckmark. In fact my flinching was so bad that I am shooting a few inches lower even at 7 to 10 yards. Luckily, the flinching is very consistent I ended up with a group a few inches under. But once in a while I will end up shooting right and get 1 out of 10 shoots going where I want. My shots don't go wide horizontally, I ended up with a group that looks like a short vertical line a few inches under the target. I tried to blame on the fixed sight or somehow the Glock shoots lower (but I know it is not true). I have the flinch and it is all my fault.

Now I have accepted my problem. How do I fix this? Here are the stuff I have tried but no luck

1) Laser, my laser result with 7 to 10 yards shoot very good and nothing like shooting live fire 9mm so no matter how much laser training I do it didn't fix my live fire.

2) Dry fire with empty casing to see if it falls. Of course it didn't fall. I found it same with doing laser. I was doing great but all fell apart in live ammo.

3) Mantis-X -- Mantis-X helped me confirmed my problem. I can it showing me I push forward, breaking wrist when doing live fire and when dry fire it shows no such problem. Being aware of that I already keep in mind try not to do that in live ammo but still no luck.

4) Just aim higher. I moved the front sight dot even on top of the rear sight. It did move up the shot slightly but not as much as I expect. I felt this is not a healthy way to cure the problem. I felt that if the Glock17 came with fixed sight then it should be shooting straight at short distance?

I feel I am stuck. How did you guys cure your flinch? Will getting a 22lr conversion for the Glock and shoot on the exact lower help? But I am already shooting ok with another 22lr pistol. I wish I have another 9mm to try with and compare.
 
A father and son team I shoot with load each other's 9mm mags, putting up to three dummies in a mag. It has brought both of them to where they now opt for shooting head shots in IDPA, so the method works.

Since you don't flinch with your .22, it may have something to do with the 9mm. Try another gun. My wife used to flinch when shooting her SR9s. She has since acquired CZ Shadows and lost her flinch.
 
Where are you located? I would really recommend a knowledgeable instructor who can help with the flinching. It really helps to have someone on top of it for each shot.

The drill Sharps'74 suggested with the dummy rounds is what I do. If you don't have dummies, have the instructor load an empty casing or a live round into the chamber without you looking. Simulates the same thing.

True flinching is very hard to get rid of. It really takes hours and thousands of good trigger squeezes. And it can fall apart again quickly esp if you start shooting fast or bigger calibers. It comes down to mind over matter.

Just let the trigger let off surprise you. Put all your focus on sight picture only as your finger squeezes the trigger. The click or bang must come as a surprise. I've done this with newbies where I have them aim the gun on target while I squeeze the trigger for them. Or put my finger over theirs while squeezing the trigger. I do the squeezing whilst theirs comes for the ride.
 
Doesn't really sound like true flinching, If your shots are all over the place high low wide etc. that's what I would call flinching. All low sounds more like sight picture.
 
Make a conscious effort not to focus on the gun firing. Easier said then done, I know. What helped me, and improved my accuracy overall, was to just focus on the front sight, and continually chant something like 'front sight, over and over, as I press the trigger. I don't focus on the break, just the chant. Try it dry firing. Best thing to work for me .
 
gwhysow is on the right track. Until your brain tells itself that it is completely comfortable with recoil, it is always going to alert you, when it thinks the gun is going to fire - hence, the very slight push forward (which drops the muzzle), to compensate for the push back that it knows is coming.
Next time you're shooting, tell yourself (brain), while you are holding your sight picture, that you want to see how much you can squeeze the trigger, without the gun firing. Obviously, the gun is going to fire, but while your brain is concentrating on how much you can squeeze the trigger, without the gun going off, it gets sidetracked from being able to alert you about the coming recoil. This may sound a little hokey, but it really does work. I've helped dozens of new shooters who have a flinch and this method works for most of them - you just have to remember to do it for each shot. After a few hundred rounds (hopefully less), your brain will "learn" to be comfortable with the recoil and you won't have to do this anymore.
 
Had a discussion about this today at the range, one of the best things that helped me is doing dry firing exercises with a small coin like a nickel or dime lying on the top of the gun as close to the front sight as possible.

Pick a spot on the opposite side of the room like a lightswitch cover and practice aiming and pulling the trigger until the coin stops falling off. Then practice it some more.

This really helped my flinch with hot .44mag rounds. The mild loads, no problem but the hot stuff? I was lucky to get them all on the paper. The side benefit is that my grouping with the softer loads has also improved dramatically.
 
If you aren't doubling up on hearing protection, do so. Might help a bit, and if you are shooting indoors, practice outdoors some. I also use dummy rounds when I help train new guys. Be surprised how many don't even know they have a flinch.
I have seen some actually close their eyes and look away when the shot breaks.
 
+1 for doubling up on the hearing protection. Try shooting from a rest too, till you get the trigger pull and sighting issues straightened out.
 
Get some Barnaul 9mm ammo - this will sound odd, but it's great training ammo because it's crap. The primers are very tough, and sometimes instead of bang it goes click. If you're training against flinch, or for IA's it's pure gold. Have someone load your mags with a mix of live rounds and snap caps too. Also, relax and breathe, and concentrate on the basic mechanics - sight alignment, trigger pull, follow through. Incidentally, flinch is something most shooters experience, it comes and goes, don't sweat it.
 
IMO altering how you shoot the gun is a very bad option. Fix the real problem, don't put a bandaid on the issue that will bite you when you get a third gun.

Some advice that helped me and which I've passed on regularly is to stop thinking about the Big Bang and think only about a full smooth trigger pull. One where you build pressure and the trigger moves when it wants to move in response to the pressure instead of thinking about moving the trigger. And to confirm to yourself that you are doing things right and not "flinching at the BANG" hold the trigger back fully and only allow it to come forward after all the noise and motion is stopped. That ensures and confirms your commitment to a proper follow through.

Another thing you might be doing is snatching at the trigger. This may be due to the fairly long pre-break travel on your Glock compared to your Buckmark triggers. You may be snatching at it to get past the longer travel of the Glock if you are fully releasing it between shots. Hard to say without being there and seeing you in action. But if you hold the trigger back and allow the gun to fire somewhere along the way then you're in a position to now ease the pressure off and let the trigger push your finger forward. As you do this in a smooth progressive way you'll feel the little click of the reset. At that point you can take the next shot by building pressure again. In short as I've said to some younger folks "it's a trigger, not an Xbox controller button". So don't treat it like a button.

Next up in the list of possible reasons is that you may be holding the Glock with a death grip. When you grab that hard it's very hard to move your trigger finger smoothly and in isolation from your other fingers. If in doubt ease up on your grip pressure a little so that it's a firm supportive hold without being a death grip. Hold the gun much like you'd hold a tennis racquet, baseball bat or hammer intending a long day of play or work. Or with the sort of firm handshake you'd use with someone you're not trying to crush their hand into immobility. If the gun moves around in your grip then look at your method for holding the gun. Get on You Tube and look up Travis Haley on hand gun gripping. Use the right method and ease up if you're holding the Glock more firmly than the Buckmark.

I had a nasty flinch when I started out with my Shadow. What I did to get around it is ask much the same questions and got much the same answers which I've passed on above. To aid me I would start out shooting some .22 and really focus on these basics. When I was shooting well I'd stop right there even if in mid magazine and unload/clear the rimfire gun and load up and start shooting the Shadow. I might only get in a few shots before I'd feel and see the flinch returning. I'd stop right there and unload/clear the Shadow and go back to the rimfire. In time, not much either, I was able to shoot a magazine or three out of the Shadow without flinching. And from there it was not much harder to banish the flinch totally other than where it would sneak back here or there.... like when shooting some .44Mag.... :d

But by far the best training aid to avoid flinching and force me to use the proper focus of attention was my shift to shooting a lot with double action revolvers. To do well and hit what I wanted with those required a total commitment to a smooth but rapid build of pressure on the trigger. Being fast does not mean you give up the idea of a smooth progressive pressure build. It just means you need to do so more smoothly while being fast. And nothing flinches like a double action revolver trigger being snatched at in a jerky manner.

There is also a possible gun fit issue here. I, and quite a few others I've talked with, found the older Gen3 and earlier Glocks felt quite blocky in the hand. And as a result it was harder to achieve a really good and consistent grip on the gun. If you can try some other brands and models and see if that makes a difference.
 
just shoot the gun down range without really aiming. hold it firm and just shoot for the FEEL. once you are comfortable now aim at the target with the same feel and embrace the recoil. not like it is gonna hurt you. just recoil.
 
If your gun can handle it - dry fire. Just aim at a blank wall and give it the best hammer fall you can. The gun should not move. It will become an ingrained habit.

It will lead to what Cooper called the "surprise break" when the gun seemingly goes off on it's own. Your follow through will be automatic preventing you from buggering it up.

This is for bulls eye primarily, but the technique can be carried on into action shooting.
 
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